The French Collection?

[Bruce_in_Oz]

French Enfields: The Navy Arms No. 4s | An Official Journal Of The NRA

The last "hurrah" in this quantity?

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[desperatedan]

Very interesting.

I wonder if the 'PP' serial prefixes mentioned in the article has anything to do with the Préfecture de Police, part of the Ministry of the Interior? It's likely that the collection/confiscation of arms would have been undertaken by Police at the end of the war and each firearm would be recorded/catalogued before being stored as these extra serials demonstrate.

It's a nice looking Maltby rifle in the article. My Maltby made No.4 has a french history and no doubt like many others supplied to resistance forces, it was never handed in at the end of the war.

[Strangely Brown]

I have PP listed as a prefix for special orders circa 1951 for suppliers like Parker-Hale, (PP1~PP43) and unknown source (PP44~PP47).

Was PP used earlier??

[30Three]

That's an interesting article.
Personally I have never heard of No4 for rifles being handed in at the end of the war; but I suppose that is likely that some weapons may have been. I have not seen any PP marked rifles for sale in France.

I have a 1944 Maltby that was part of a drop to local Resistance. It came to via a friend of the Resistant family; who had kept it stored for over 70 years. There are obviously no British civilian marks or proofs on this rifle. It would be interesting to see if the French rifles in the article have any proofs.

Most Resistants held onto their weapons after the war, because of the various different political groups that made up the French Resistance. They didn't know if they may need them in the years after the war. Many were hidden and still turn up with alarming regularity in farmyards and barns around France.

Heres my resistance Maltby. With original ammo from the drop. Magazine shows virtually zero wear.
In France it is possible to declare these rifles so they can enter the legally owned arms register. Which is great for the historical importance of these arms.
It was dropped around D-Day and the region was liberated mid August. So not much wear and tear.

It gets used in

[30Three]

A clearer photo of the left side of the receiver; as well as the bolt rail and trigger guard screw, untouched since build in 1944. ( I have since stripped the rifle to inspect for rust and condition before shooting)

[desperatedan]

30Three, nice rifle. My Maltby has a similar story to yours, stored for many years after the war.

[Surpmil]

In the memoirs of "Colonel Henri" of the Abwehr he claims to have arranged and captured many weapon drops as a result of Abwehr and SD penetration of the Resistance and SOE. What the Germans did with such arms is anyone's guess, though I believe they armed the Vichy Milice militia with some of them.

Probably most ended up in the hands of the central government at the end of the war, unless some local governments or officials held onto some for the political reasons 30Three mentions.

I wonder if the Milice put any markings on theirs?

It would be interesting to know what the breakdown of dates and manufacturers was - No4(T)s were sent, but were any included? Probably prized souvenirs those and not likely to be turned in.

[harry mac]

These rifles from Navy Arms seem to be in too good condition to have been handed in by resistance fighters.
I've seen some of the rifles haned in by various militias and armed groups after the Balkan conflict. Wartime, armed civillians don't generally take good care of their weapons.
If they had been fired with wartime manufacture MkVII ammo, I would expect to see a lot of ruined bores from being either improperly cleaned or not cleaned at all after firing.
I'm more inclined to believe they were supplied,post-war to some French government agency, put into storage, and then never used.

[AD-4NA]

The condition is nice. It would be interesting if someone would dive into the French archives and check out the provenance story.