+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 11 to 16 of 16

Thread: .303 Corrosive/Non-Corrosive Database?

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #11
    Legacy Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Last On
    Today @ 12:25 PM
    Location
    Y Felinheli, Gogledd Cymru
    Posts
    2,526
    Real Name
    Alan De Enfield
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    06:01 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by browningautorifleicon View Post
    I doubt you'll actually be able to get any corrosive ammo in any bulk today, or actually be able to shoot it reliably. I'd think most of what you'll find now is FNM or HXP and Prvi Partizan. I made a habit of stripping other headstamps for the components and re-priming for reliability.

    Kynoch / Kynamco made a batch (250,000 I think) of MkVII a few years ago using a flat based, open ended 174g bullet and NC powder - shoots a treat but a shame they used S&B ("shoot and bin") cases.

    The old and the new :
    Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	CAM00030.jpg‎
Views:	141
Size:	493.4 KB
ID:	129186   Click image for larger version

Name:	1510948723646 - Copy.jpg‎
Views:	130
Size:	33.6 KB
ID:	129187   Click image for larger version

Name:	1510948703214.jpg‎
Views:	119
Size:	33.4 KB
ID:	129188  
    Last edited by Alan de Enfield; 12-18-2022 at 12:39 PM.
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

  2. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to Alan de Enfield For This Useful Post:


  3. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  4. #12
    Legacy Member Mk VII's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Last On
    03-20-2024 @ 07:30 PM
    Location
    England
    Age
    62
    Posts
    1,406
    Real Name
    James West
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    06:01 PM
    At one time they were using South African Berdan cases from broken-down stuff.

  5. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  6. #13
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 01:16 PM
    Location
    Victoria BC
    Posts
    29,838
    Real Name
    Jim
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    11:01 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield View Post
    Kynoch / Kynamco made a batch
    Nice...we didn't get those I think. You folk must have consumed them. Non corrosive too I would also believe?
    Regards, Jim

  7. #14
    Legacy Member Bruce_in_Oz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last On
    Today @ 04:54 AM
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    2,237
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    04:01 AM
    Quick rule of "thumb":

    It the primer cup is COPPER c0loured, Most likely to be both Mercuric AND corrosive. This does not just apply to .303 ammo.

    Primer cup "brass" coloured? Non mercuric (probably Lead Styphnate or Lead Azide), but can be corrosive (Chlorate salts to improve "Brissance")

    A lot of "sporting ammo pre-ww2 is like this, as is virtually ALL military ammo The stuff went bang reliably, but required proper cleaning to wash out the residual Chloride salts left by the action of the primer.

    SOME primers, had a tiny amount of finely-ground BLACK powder in their brew to further enhance brissance. Brit .303 is one of the more notable in this category of having a touch MORE corrosive by-product.

    The US tinkered with non-corrosive primers in the 1930s, Their .30 Carbine round was probably the first mass-produced military cartridge, built from the ground up as non-corrosive. This was necessary as the Carbine's short-stroke tappet gas system is NOT easily cleanable in the field. A warning: There has been some M-1 Carbine ammo from the mysterious East that is absolutely NOT "non-corrosive. Caveat Emptor, as they say. The 7.62 NATO round was one of the next majors to take that path. Right from the start, non-corrosive priming was in the specification.

    The "eastern-Bloc" stuck with the tried and true corrosive brew, because it WORKED in any and all climatic situations. The Russians had been chrome-lining bored for some time pre-WW2 and it became a regular feature thereafter. See also the Japaneseicon type 99, etc. Chroming the bore and chamber also does not totally prevent corrosive combustion products penetrating to the base steel. the Chrome, is plated directly onto to steel substrate, unlike "decorative" chroming. It forms a surface that contains tiny micro-fractures. If done properly, the bore will attract a LOT less jacket fouling than a plain bore. Chromed bores are NOT indestructible, but they do last a LOT longer with conscientiously applied basic cleaning.However, when they "go bad" it happens fairly suddenly.
    Last edited by Bruce_in_Oz; 12-19-2022 at 06:00 PM.

  8. The Following 2 Members Say Thank You to Bruce_in_Oz For This Useful Post:


  9. #15
    Legacy Member tj214's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Last On
    03-26-2024 @ 05:38 PM
    Location
    US
    Posts
    82
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    02:01 PM
    Thread Starter
    Back after a Christmas/New Year's hiatus.

    I was not clear in my initial request for a .303 database. You old heads have a good existing knowledge of what .303 ammo is corrosive (and I acknowledge the point that all ammo is to some extent corrosive), but you legit Subject Matter Experts are a pretty small fraternity.

    The rest of us don't know nearly as much as you guys do, but we still like to shoot. I am hoping this forum can start a fairly simplistic "database" of which manufacturers' ammo, including year of manufacture, is known corrosive. I understand such a database cannot be complete, but it will be a huge help to us "civilians" to know which ammo to avoid even at "good deal" prices. There's a lot of crap floating around and knowing what to avoid will save a lot of heartache!

    Have pity on us peons!!! LOL

    TIA.

  10. #16
    Legacy Member Alan de Enfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Last On
    Today @ 12:25 PM
    Location
    Y Felinheli, Gogledd Cymru
    Posts
    2,526
    Real Name
    Alan De Enfield
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    06:01 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tj214 View Post
    Back after a Christmas/New Year's hiatus.

    I was not clear in my initial request for a .303 database. You old heads have a good existing knowledge of what .303 ammo is corrosive (and I acknowledge the point that all ammo is to some extent corrosive), but you legit Subject Matter Experts are a pretty small fraternity.

    The rest of us don't know nearly as much as you guys do, but we still like to shoot. I am hoping this forum can start a fairly simplistic "database" of which manufacturers' ammo, including year of manufacture, is known corrosive. I understand such a database cannot be complete, but it will be a huge help to us "civilians" to know which ammo to avoid even at "good deal" prices. There's a lot of crap floating around and knowing what to avoid will save a lot of heartache!

    Have pity on us peons!!! LOL

    TIA.


    Ok - for starters :

    Avoid any ammunition with Cordite :
    The reference to NC is for Nitro Cellulose NOT 'Non Corrosive'.

    'Regulations For Army Ordnance Services', Vol.3, Pam.11A (1949) comments:-

    APPENDIX 15

    USE OF .303-IN CORDITE AND N.C. AMMUNITION

    1. The action of Cordite propellant in the barrel of a .303-in. weapon is quite different from that of N.C. propellant.
    Cordite gives a rapid build-up of pressure with great heat, leading to pitting and erosion of the chamber end of the barrel.
    N.C., however, gives a more gradual build-up of pressure with less heat, and this in turn gives uniformity of barrel wear from chamber to muzzle, the amount of pitting and erosion being greatly reduced.

    2. With Cordite propellant, set-up of the bullet is most pronounced and even when the chamber end of the barrel is well worn, the muzzle end still has sufficient rifling left to impart the necessary spin. As the wear advances up the barrel, so the accuracy of the weapon is progressively reduced.
    With an N.C. propellant, set-up of the bullet is slow and by no means so pronounced, due to the more gradual building up of pressure. The barrel retains its original accuracy until wear reaches a critical stage, when a sudden falling off in accuracy occurs.

    3. It can be seen by comparison with the effects of barrel wear that to use N.C. ammunition in a barrel which has fired Cordite will give serious inaccuracy in flight, whereas the use of Cordite ammunition in a barrel which has fired N.C. gives good accuracy, but serious changed the wear pattern of the barrel.
    In the first case, i.e. a weapon which has fired Cordite ammunition the barrel will be eroded and fissured in the first few inches up from the chamber, the part in which obturation should occur. The poor set-up of the bullet, in the N.C. cartridge is not sufficient to give good gas sealing in such a barrel and the bullet does not, therefore, receive the maximum impulse. The resultant loss in velocity and instability due to lack of spin lead to a high degree of inaccuracy.
    In the second case, Cordite ammunition fired from a barrel which shows uniformity of wear from firing N.C. ammunition, has an adequate reserve of set-up that ensures full gas sealing, with satisfactory velocity and spin. Unless the barrel wear is in a advanced stage due to firing a large number of N.C. rounds, there will be no immediate appreciable loss in accuracy. Furthermore, the decline in accuracy for Cordite ammunition will follow the normal gradual fall-off experience in weapons firing Cordite alone, as the wear at C of R progresses.

    4. Trials have proved that even if only a few rounds of Cordite ammunition are fired from an "N.C." barrel, the ensuing accuracy life when N.C. is subsequently fired is reduced considerably. The occasional and restricted use of N.C. in a "Cordite" barrel will however, have little effect on its ensuing accuracy life for Cordite, although naturally the fire of N.C. will not be very accurate.

    5. The effect of wear of barrels can be determined by firing shots through a paper screen at 100 yards. If, on examination of the screen, all shot holes are not perfectly round, then the barrel is no longer fit for use.
    The danger lies in the fact that bullets fired erratically from badly worn barrels may overcome their instability in flight and take up a steady flight in the direction in which they happen to be pointing, with short-ranging and disastrous results if used for overhead fire. Except under these conditions of long-range firing there is no risk involved, though in normal range firing inaccurate fire will result.

    6. The following instructions regarding the use of .303-in ammunition have been issued to users and are governed by stocks and types of ammunition and weapons in current use:-

    (a) .303 in. Vickers M.G.s in M.G. Bns.

    (i)Mk.8z only will be used for overhead firing.
    (ii) Mixed belts, i.e. Ball, Tracer, A.P., etc., will NOT be used.
    (iii) Any barrel which has fired Cordite ammunition will NOT be used for N.C.; barrels will be stamped “7” on the trunnion block and returned to R.A.O.C. through normal channels.
    (iv) Barrel life for N.C. will be assessed by unit armourers using the appropriate gauges.

    (b) .303 in. Vickers M.G.s in A.F.V.s.

    Here the overhead fire problem is not considered; the range is usually less than is the case with ground M.G.s. tracer ammunition is required as an aid to fire control, and prolonged fire programmes are not envisaged. Special mixed belts of Mk.8z and Tracer are provided in boxes clearly marked “For use in A.F.V.s only”. The reduced life of the barrels is accepted.

    (c) Light M.G.s.

    Cordite ammunition normally will be used. N.C. ammunition, however, gives a relatively small flash at night and if the Bren is being used for a special purpose, e.g., on a patrol, its use is permitted.

    (d) Rifles.

    N.C. ammunition will not be used in rifles except in such circumstances as quoted in para. “(c)”
    above, if necessity should arise.

    7. Belt packed S.A.A. for M.G.s is packed in boxes which are clearly marked with labels or stenciling indicating its proper use. It will never be de-belted and used for practice purposes in L.M.G.s or rifles.

    8. It must be noted that the above restrictions apply only to ammunition fired from Britishicon weapons. All American ammunition is N.C. loaded and their weapons are designed to fire it satisfactorily.
    Mine are not the best, but they are not too bad. I can think of lots of Enfields I'd rather have but instead of constantly striving for more, sometimes it's good to be satisfied with what one has...

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Similar Threads

  1. Is this corrosive?
    By Thumper in forum Soviet Bloc Rifles
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-24-2011, 10:40 AM
  2. corrosive?
    By elonfire in forum Ammunition and Reloading for Old Milsurps
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 07-04-2010, 05:10 PM
  3. Does anyone know if this is corrosive?
    By hsr in forum Mauser Rifles
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-26-2009, 03:31 PM
  4. .303 corrosive or not
    By joem in forum The Watering Hole OT (Off Topic) Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-01-2009, 03:10 PM
  5. 7.62x39 Corrosive or not?
    By Calum in forum Ammunition and Reloading for Old Milsurps
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-17-2008, 12:41 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Raven Rocks