Mystery Inglis HP with aluminum frame

[Nagato2ca]

Hi All,

I finally received an Inglis HP I purchased last August. When I opened it up today I was a little annoyed as my first impression was that it was a lunchbox gun. It had no visible serial numbers and the finish on the frame and slide were different. Upon closer examination I was very surprised to find almost no markings and further shocked when I disassembled it. The frame weights almost nothing, its featherlight. It has to be aluminum or some other very light alloy. The only numerical markings are a 7 behind the magazine well and the roman numeral II in two locations on parts of the frame. The is a faint marking on the breech of the barrel and below and left of the ejection port on the slide.

Given the extreme rarity of the experimental Inglis lightweight frames I can only assume this is a later component that someone happened to put an Inglis barrel and slide onto. However, the very few markings and the location of the 7 stamp behind the mag leave me questioning what the origin of the frame might have been. I have also compared it to the later FN made aluminum and the locking shoulder pins design doesn't match. They have a round pin while this on had a pin that is squared off at the top and front. I'd appreciate any help figuring out what exactly I have here.


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Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[browningautorifle]

They did experiment with aluminum frames at one point and this could be one. After experiments they were scrapped, you can find several frames cut to chunks on Collector Source in Acton On.

Did you try a magnet and see if it sticks to the frame yet?

It looks otherwise like a typical pieced together parts from production gun.

[Nagato2ca]

Hi Jim,

The magnet doesn't stick, no. I had read that some of the cast frames had been assembled into complete guns. Anyone have a reference to these guns and if they were serialized?

[browningautorifle]

I wonder if the Collector's book "Diamond in the Rough" would have info... I know there were only a half dozen actually made up but I seriously doubt this frame is one. With no ownership marks on it, hard to say where it came from.

"In 1947 engineers at John Inglis and Company began work on developing a lightweight Browning Hi-Power. The first pistol had a lightened slide and a steel frame. However, by 1948 Inglis were experimenting with aluminum alloy frames.

Inglis assembled six prototype pistols, chambered in 9x19mm, with steel slides scalloped with lightening cuts on the top and sides and alloy frames. Mechanically the experimental pistols were identical to the standard Hi-Power using a short-recoil action and feeding from a 13-round double stack magazine. Unloaded the experimental pistols weighed 25.5 ounces, a reduction of 8.5 ounces or 25% of the standard Hi-Power’s weight. Externally the alloy frame had a black enamel finish while the slide was parkerised. Two of the pistols remained in Canada for testing, Britain received two and two were sent to the US for testing and evaluation. Canadian testing of what was officially designated the ‘Pistol, Browning FN 9mm, HP No. 2 MK.1/1 Canadian Lightweight Pattern’ took place in June – July 1948. Their report concluded that “the performance of the Lightweight Pistols during the trial was of the same order as that of the Standard and is acceptable for service use.“ In December 1948, Testing Section staff at the Royal Small Arms Factory, Enfield evaluated the performance of the Inglis prototypes sent to Britain in what became known as ‘The Lightened Browning Trials. The lightweight Hi Power unfortunately never went anywhere"

I know that one of the pistols ended up here in the sedentary collection of the deceased William Fowler, Maj, P.P.C.L.I. It's present location after his passing a couple years ago is unknown.

Picture from the sale site, text too...

[Gil Boyd]

Looks like it spent a lot of its life in a holster by the pitting, and probably in a damp room.
Nice find, especially if you can balance out the provenance to it as well, could be very rare indeed....good luck mate!!

[Brian Dick]

Many lunch box Inglis No.2 pistols exist but not with LW frames. Interesting pistol. I'd find a decent set of original Inglis grips for it, grease it up and squirrel it away.

[Brian Dick]

Many lunch box Inglis No.2 pistols exist but not with LW frames. Interesting pistol. I'd find a decent set of original Inglis grips for it, grease it up and squirrel it away.

Correction. Those are original LW grips!

[Nagato2ca]

Hi Brian, ya I figured there were. Interestingly the known experimental frames assembled with wooden grips as well.

I have yet to find a lightweight frame that this matches in design, other than the Inglis ones. However, I really cannot believe given their extreme rarity that this is one. However, this example of an unfinished, cast frame from Clive Law's collection does have the same squared off locking shoulder pin hole as mine (top left of image). I am going to try and get some history on mine, but chances of that are slim as it came from an auction.

Browning Hi Power Lightweight Project Items

[browningautorifle]

I wonder if it was originally Japanned and someone acid dipped it to try to get the "Paint" off it? That would eat the aluminum and account for the pitted finish.

[Gil Boyd]

Jim,
A definite possibility, but ones I have seen with that pitting in that specific area has been where it has been most exposed to damp for long duration compared to the rest of the metalwork which is nestled in the holster, a process that is often speeded up in a damp canvas holster too like jungle conditions, compared to a leather one.