An interesting scope combo.

[browningautorifle]

I often wondered if this was an Armourers NI 'special'

Peter might know as we had a reward for innovation, a cash sum. Maybe he had the same system. Mine was mounted on the attachments of the old leaf sight for out original C2 "LAR" rear sight. Just one stump at the back half. You might have to resort to looking in an FN book to see, this would date back to the unaccepted rear sight.

[mrclark303]

Peter might know as we had a reward for innovation, a cash sum. Maybe he had the same system. Mine was mounted on the attachments of the old leaf sight for out original C2 "LAR" rear sight. Just one stump at the back half. You might have to resort to looking in an FN book to see, this would date back to the unaccepted rear sight.

Sounds like an interesting rig there Jim...

[browningautorifle]

Sounds like an interesting rig

It worked great but it was a one off. There had been others I think but had long since gone.

[mrclark303]

I took the afternoon off to head to my local range to test the scope out.

What a lovely scope to use, very nice optics x 3 or x 4 magnification, (clarity not captured by my phone unfortunately), micro click adjusted and perfect eye relief for me.

As I previously mentioned, I am restricting my use of this scope to .22 conversion kit, as I don't want to risk damaging what is an exceptionally rare collectors scope.

As set up, it was easy to dial in at 30 yards (dial set to 100 yards) with .22 put me fractionally below bull.

Accuracy is about right with the kit, printing sub inch groups at 25 yards generally.

All in all a lovely scope, from a shooters perspective, it feels 'right' on the rifle, with the dials coming to hand easily and perfect eye relief.

It really does seem a shame it never reached general issue, obviously as a planned No4T replacement, it would never cut the mustard, but as a designated Marksman's rifle with this set up, it would be about perfect.... Mounting ruggedness aside of course, but its certainly more sturdy than the SUIT setup!

I can only assume my example was on REME trials in the 1960's and never got returned, possibly the only one (or very few) that actually got used for its intended propose in NI back in the early 70's!

[browningautorifle]

It really does seem a shame it never reached general issue, obviously as a planned No4T replacement

Our FN scopes were never to surpass or replace the #4, the C# came in to do that. Ours was issued as a marksman's optic. I had one issued to me during the peace negotiations in Nicosia Cyprus in 1975. The actual snipers still had the C3.

As set up, it was easy to dial in at 30 yards (dial set to 100 yards) with .22 put me fractionally below bull.

We had to set our rear iron sight to 600 on the rifle to engage the targets with the insert. I expect the same with this...sights up to strike on.

[mrclark303]

Our FN scopes were never to surpass or replace the #4, the C# came in to do that. Ours was issued as a marksman's optic. I had one issued to me during the peace negotiations in Nicosia Cyprus in 1975. The actual snipers still had the C3.



We had to set our rear iron sight to 600 on the rifle to engage the targets with the insert. I expect the same with this...sights up to strike on.

As I understand it Jim, the original idea behind this specific scope combo was to allow the retirement of the No4T that was certainly looking 'tied' by 1960.

Until I can access trials data, it's all subjective, but going as far as developing/ modifying the scope and mount and producing a trial batch, only to then discover a well fettled 4T can easily out shoot it, really dosen't seem like rocket science!

I would have thought a relitivly simple trial at Enfied with a tool room made mount and commercial scope would have identified the limitations and put the idea to bed before serious money was wasted!

That said, with this well thought out scope and mount combo already developed and I assume trialed, why on earth wasn't it adopted as a designated Marksmans setup?

Looking back at this retrospectively, it seems obvious.

Such is the mysteries of the procurement process I guess...

[Gil Boyd]

John,
I would place a date around early to mid 70's as we trialled several spot orientated scopes then in Northern Ireland, as we found the SUIT series wanting. I know we have spoken about those early scopes on the site before but all was lost on a site upgrade with the photos to, as I can't now locate them. Peter may have some dated papers that could shed light on this interesting scope you have. Nice find mate.

[Peter Laidler]

Ah, yes. The designation will give you an age marker. The Noxx MkX instead of the Tel Strt Stg LxAx type designation dates these to pre 65 - I was going to say. But this one is 1967 - as is the one that I have got.

There is also an EMER for them which I will try to find. It was only a provisional EMER which gives a further clue about its longevity in service. I also found the trials report from the Trials unit at Warminster. Like all optical sights fitted to L1's, it's the interface that is the problem and that was the cause of this little sights demise which, so it seems, struggled on into 1970 and was them made obsolescent. The steel plate between the cover and the sight would tear the spot welds away in pretty short order, believe me

They came in a longish kakhi heavy duty canvas bag, lined with a felt material with a buckle fastener - like the usual '44 or 58 pattern green alloy style. At the back there were two similar buckles that you could put a cross-strap through. The rifle, VERY good though it was, was never going to be a sniper rifle. That said, late on came the Alvis/AVIMO SUIT which, while it looked good wasn't as good as the little No74. If you could mount a tele sight onto the body, then that would be another matter. But alas, it doesn't make a VERY good infantry rifle into a snipers rifle. Only the No4T and the L42 can do that!

Those are my only observations of it.

[browningautorifle]

it doesn't make a VERY good infantry rifle into a snipers rifle.

Exactly... But a decent optic can help with moderate eyesight, as long as you can keep the rifle mated to the optic.

[mrclark303]

Ah, yes. The designation will give you an age marker. The Noxx MkX instead of the Tel Strt Stg LxAx type designation dates these to pre 65 - I was going to say. But this one is 1967 - as is the one that I have got.

There is also an EMER for them which I will try to find. It was only a provisional EMER which gives a further clue about its longevity in service. I also found the trials report from the Trials unit at Warminster. Like all optical sights fitted to L1's, it's the interface that is the problem and that was the cause of this little sights demise which, so it seems, struggled on into 1970 and was them made obsolescent. The steel plate between the cover and the sight would tear the spot welds away in pretty short order, believe me

They came in a longish kakhi heavy duty canvas bag, lined with a felt material with a buckle fastener - like the usual '44 or 58 pattern green alloy style. At the back there were two similar buckles that you could put a cross-strap through. The rifle, VERY good though it was, was never going to be a sniper rifle. That said, late on came the Alvis/AVIMO SUIT which, while it looked good wasn't as good as the little No74. If you could mount a tele sight onto the body, then that would be another matter. But alas, it doesn't make a VERY good infantry rifle into a snipers rifle. Only the No4T and the L42 can do that!

Those are my only observations of it.

Many thanks for the information Pete, like I originally said, this was given to a young REME officer by the armourer and he occasionally used it through the remainder of his 1972 NI tour.

My excitement upon receiving it (L1 anorak firmly on and zipped up) was equally matched by his excitement upon a fair trade for a good bottle of Whiskey.... Both parties were delighted!

Any information you can provide on these would be greatly appreciated, I'm assuming a very limited production run...

This one has certainly seen very limited use...