An interesting scope combo.

[mrclark303]

If you can find older, retired staff members through social media etc. they might have better knowledge than current staff.

That's an excellent idea. I will certainly look into that.

A quick update, Jonathan Ferguson, curator of firearms has kindly been able to confirm that seven No74 Mk1 scopes are in the Leeds Royal Armouries collection, with one mounted on a rifle.

There is a a good deal of information relating to the scopes and trial in the archive there and Ive been given permission to look through the documentation.

This really is a huge help and should allow us to form a complete picture of the project.

[mrclark303]

A small update today,

Unfortunately, Beck Optronics don't have records going back to the 1960's anymore, so that particular line of enquiry is dead, however, some of this information might (possibly) be in the royal armouries archive, if its wrapped up within the Mod project data.

[Surpmil]

One reference I noticed when looking into Beck was a donation made to The Science Museum in the 1960s, so if there was a clear-out then it's possible some other materials went there also.

[mrclark303]

Quick update:

The examples in Leeds Royal Armouries listed online are as follows:

BL 010 (With mount)
BL 026 (With mount)
BL 027 (no mount info)
BL 048 (no mount info)
BL 053 (With mount)
BL 075 (experimental mount)
One other example L1A1 mounted no s/n provided. ( I will try to obtain that s/n)
All the above gifted to Leeds from the old Enfield pattern Room Collection.

To this we can add the privately owned examples
BL 033 (with mount)
BL 063 (no mount)
BL 078 (complete, mount and prototype bag)

I will attempt to get information relating to the experimental mount fitted to '075'.

From this information, I think we can confidently now say we have a run of 100 No74 Mk1 scopes.

[Warren]

The No.71 scope is a No.32 scope with a + reticle for the Wombat Anti Tank rifle
MANY have been converted back to a No.32 reticle style.
I have done several over the years and a fair number from "down under"
cheers,
Warren

[mrclark303]

The No.71 scope is a No.32 scope with a + reticle for the Wombat Anti Tank rifle
MANY have been converted back to a No.32 reticle style.
I have done several over the years and a fair number from "down under"
cheers,
Warren

Hi Warren,

The No74 scope comes from a different linage, its not No32 based.

[Peter Laidler]

Warren correctly stated that the No71 scope was based on the No32 scope and not the No74.

I understand that the No71 scope wasn't fitted to the old Wombat anti tank gun, certainly not in my time working on them, but the Mk2 Centurion for the polsten cannon in mch the same way as the No42 was used in the Mk7 and 8 Churchill gun tanks.

This is the reason why the 71's were painted silver

The BAT had a .303 Bren as a ranging gun mounted on the left side of the main gun. The MOBAT - a modified BAT (Mo BAT) was a BAT without the massive shield and had either an L4 or .303 Bren mounted against the main gun. But, alas, the 7.62mm round did not give the same correct trajectory as the original .303 bullet and there was a sort-of formula to correct this!!!!! Later they both had the M8C .50" short calibre rifle fitted that solved the problem.

The real problem with the feared BAT family wasn't the gun as such but was feared by Armourers who had to work on them, especially the barrel trunnion bearings and electrical firing mechanism and sliding breech mech on the BAT and MOBAT. I'm not sure that the soviet tank armies facing NATO on the European border seriously feared the recoilless rifles or the 3.5" anti tank rocket launchers we were using. Not until the substantial Cark Gustav - or Charlie Gee came on the scene. That was different

[mrclark303]

I finally had a chance to circle back around to the ongoing research....

Attached are a series of detailed cut out images I've taken of my example for future reference.

[Surpmil]

So late 60s is the era of ex-Beck employees you want to find. Start as close to the top of the tree as possible perhaps as depending on how large or spread out the company was those lower down may not have known what was being done in other departments?

Excellent photos. Not much of a case is it?

A bit of deformation at the front top of the cover from recoil "slamming"? A half-round reinforcement brazed on there would have been a good idea.

[mrclark303]

So late 60s is the era of ex-Beck employees you want to find. Start as close to the top of the tree as possible perhaps as depending on how large or spread out the company was those lower down may not have known what was being done in other departments?

Excellent photos. Not much of a case is it?

A bit of deformation at the front top of the cover from recoil "slamming"? A half-round reinforcement brazed on there would have been a good idea.

Research will trickle on as and when I get time. It's Warminster first to check for any trial information and then Leeds to look at their examples and the considerable documentation archive on the subject there.

The pouch ( provided cleaned up image, not my pouch) does appear a little Health Robinson, it was a trials pouch however and I'm sure a far more robust example would have been produced to integrate with the 58 pattern ?? web equipment, had the No74 been adopted.