GEW 88 Safety Issue

[Low & Slow]

I believe that particular conjecture was due to the notching of the receiver on the 88/05's. I understand that was because of the change to stripper clip feeding moving the round forward, rather than the actual cartridge length. Is this so?

[bob q]

Not really . Yes the stripper clip was moved forward , but not enough to cause a problem with the S ammo . The notch was for the P-88 ammo in the stripper clip . As I stated earlier both types were in use at the same time . If you look at the notch you will see it is the exact shape of the nose of the P-88 ammo's bullet and beveled to guide it in . Also the German military manuals of the time show how to take the P-88 ammo out of the en-bloc clip and put it in the Mauser type stripper clip to load in the 88/05's if needed . What you said is in books and articles . Another example of people writing about things they do not understand .

[Low & Slow]

Ah, so my take is indeed correct then. It's not due to the cartridge at all, just the feeding method.

[bob q]

That is why I said " not really " , it is just for the P-88 ammo , NOT the S ammo . So it is 1/2 cartridge related . So I should have said kind of . The 05 conversion was to let the Gew-88 fire the S ammo in the stripper clips the S ammo was issued in , sight change and new battle Zero for the S ammo . The notch was not needed for the above , it just let the old P-88 ammo to be still used even though the sights were now wrong for it .

[Low & Slow]

Interesting, thanks. Good to get some accurate detailed info on these rifles. Obviously, the myths abound.

[Eaglelord17]

Please explain the many safety issues .

Here is a basic list which I am sure doesn't even cover all the potential issues to deal with shooting one of these:

1- Poor gas venting necessitating a re-design in the cocking piece to try and re-direct the gasses away from the shooters eyes in the event of a case failure, some but not all Gew 88s will have this cocking piece (I have had examples of both styles in my collection). This is a similar modification as to what was done to the 1886 Lebel rifle. Still doesn't 100% resolve the issue, but it can help. Always wear shooting/safety glasses when shooting one of these.

2- Weak chamber designs which were strengthened early on, still doesn't mean the original barrels aren't kicking around on some considering how many were made. Even with the stronger chambers it still isn't a rifle you want to testing the pressure on, the receiver design (like many early smokeless designs such as the Swiss 1889 rifles and Krag rifles) is marginal in it's overall strength.

3- Varying bore diameters on the barrels which can range from .318" (Czech made barrels) to .323" (Turkish 88/05/35 barrels) with the majority being around .321". Using .32 Special bullets (.321") has worked quite well for me, however it is important to slug your bore yourself to know.

4- Issues with people double feeding the rifle causing out of battery detonations (more a user error, but is still a issue for a shooter to be aware of).

5- Extremely pitted external barrels due to condensation in the barrel jacket. Most won't be this way, but it is important to check it before you shoot a unfamiliar rifle to make sure it is fine.

So in conclusion it isn't nearly as safe or easy to shoot as most other modern firearms. If you aren't careful you could easily have a very bad day with one of these. Still fun little rifles to shoot, my 88/05 is one of my favourite rifles to actually fire.

[Low & Slow]

I just have the one. It slugged out at .320, so I use the .32 Special bullets as well, with easy loads.

[bob q]

#1 about 95% have the gas shield , ones without are rare . #2 That problem was caused by bad ammo , it was not a chamber problem . It was changed early in production to the thicker barrel . Also the Germans keep the old barrels in service once the ammo problem was fixed and those barrels fired S ammo at 55,000 PSI for decades and through out WWI with no problems . #3 Was not a German military problem as the Gew-88 could fired any German ammo in service when the rifle was in service . It can be a problem today , but any rifle can have that problem if you fire the wrong ammo . #4 Was not a design problem as the round nose bullet it was designed to fire could not set off a round . Also setting off a round with a bullet is not easy . I have tried to set off primed cases with bullets and hammers and buy using another cartridge [ it just pushes the bullet back in the case . It may of happened now and then but no more than firing with a plugged bore [ again a user problem ] . #5 As I stated , I own over 100 Gew-88s and have looked at many more and have never seen a pitted barrel .

[Eaglelord17]

#1 about 95% have the gas shield , ones without are rare . #2 That problem was caused by bad ammo , it was not a chamber problem . It was changed early in production to the thicker barrel . Also the Germans keep the old barrels in service once the ammo problem was fixed and those barrels fired S ammo at 55,000 PSI for decades and through out WWI with no problems . #3 Was not a German military problem as the Gew-88 could fired any German ammo in service when the rifle was in service . It can be a problem today , but any rifle can have that problem if you fire the wrong ammo . #4 Was not a design problem as the round nose bullet it was designed to fire could not set off a round . Also setting off a round with a bullet is not easy . I have tried to set off primed cases with bullets and hammers and buy using another cartridge [ it just pushes the bullet back in the case . It may of happened now and then but no more than firing with a plugged bore [ again a user problem ] . #5 As I stated , I own over 100 Gew-88s and have looked at many more and have never seen a pitted barrel .

Did I ever say the ammo issue was a military issue? It is a problem for the civilian shooter as some commercial ammo regularly available in stores can destroy one of these rifles if fired in it. Just like how M1 Garands need M2 pressure .30-06 or you can't shoot higher pressure .45-70 out of a trapdoor springfield.

I also wouldn't say it wasn't a design problem for the double feed as they did switch to using pointed ammo in the rifles in service and encountered the problem in service. Much like how the Lebel rifles suffered from a similar problem (resulting in the ring around the brass base to catch the tip). They were just willing to accept the risk a lot more than most would be today. There is a reason they designed out that issue from most service rifles.