I thought the Army's black berets were pointless too

[Louis of PA]

Few years back I talked with a sergeant about his "Black Beret"; he was kind of embarassed by it.

I thought the Flying Saucer was OK but my preference was for "The Cap That Shall Remain Nameless". Still have mine, though it no longer fits well. They should have had a cotton version too, to go with khakis. My flying saucer went to the reserves I suppose.

Regards

from strategypage.com

ARMY: Black Beret Blues

April 20, 2009: U.S. Army troops are becoming more energetic and vocal in efforts to get rid of the black beret they have been forced to wear for the past eight years. Back in 2000, the U.S. Army commander (Chief Of Staff) general Eric Shinseki ordered that the black beret replace the traditional billed cap (which had been used for nearly a century).

Shinseki believed the black beret would be a symbol of excellence, reflecting the overall professionalism of the entire Army. He believed the black beret would repair the (largely nonexistent) divisions created by the use of different color berets in some units (red for airborne, green for special forces, black for rangers). Shinseki also believed that, because black berets are (everywhere but in the United States ) worn by armor troops, and in the U.S. by Rangers, the new headgear would reflect a merger of both light and heavy forces.

This was a non-issue to most troops.

Shinseki also insisted that selecting the color black was not intended as an insult to the Rangers (who were, and still believe that this was exactly what was intended) but was simply the best color to match the battle dress uniform (BDU). This, despite the fact that there is no longer any black in the BDU.

Shinseki also wanted to create a "world class uniform" that would be respected by foreigners who came into contact with US troops. But American troops associate the beret with armies that tend to lose (especially the French) and consider it no great honor. Then there are practical issues.

The beret is made of wool, and requires more care to keep it presentable. Even at that, no one can agree on exactly how one should wear it. The damn thing is made of wool, and is uncomfortable in warm weather. Since it has no bill, it provides no shade for the eyes when troops have to stand in formation. It also costs twice as much as the patrol cap (the baseball cap live headgear, that is the same pattern as the BDU and is soft and light).

But for many formations and occasions, the troops must wear the beret, instead of the patrol cap. Most troops would prefer to use the patrol cap, in camo or monotone versions, instead of the beret.

From the beginning, the black beret was very unpopular.

Surveys quickly revealed that the majority of the troops were hostile to the head gear change. But Shinsheki went forward anyway. Current and former rangers, and many members of Congress, appealed to president Bush to reverse the policy back then. But September 11, 2001 came along before Bush could do anything, and the beret issue has been pushed into the background ever since.

But now the troops feel they have won one war, and are on their way to winning another, and would like to get some relief from those damn, stupid berets.

Information

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[Griff Murphey]

The baseball cap which replaced the 50's coffeecan was not popular in the Viet Nam era. The Army took a survey... Berets came out on top, I understand. The beret is the one hat they can wear with class A's through BDU's. It is worn by all of the european countries. It obsoleted the Sergeant Snorkel overseas cap the Army was saddled with, and replaced the saucer cap.

My personal opinion: the best all-round hat for fatigue/utility uniforms is the M-1953 patrol cap, with earflaps it is a blessing in winter. The best-LOOKING hat for fatigue wear is the utility hat which the Marines kept from WW2, and the army discarded for the Elvis style coffeecan. The Marines and the Navy chiefs and officers have the best looking "****cutter" (overseas) caps. Great thing about the overseas cap, you can tuck it into your belt and do not have to keep up with your hat when you are inside.

In tropical or desert conditions the boonie hat is ideal.

[Louis of PA]

The baseball cap which replaced the 50's coffeecan was not popular in the Viet Nam era. The Army took a survey... Berets came out on top, I understand. The beret is the one hat they can wear with class A's through BDU's. It is worn by all of the european countries. It obsoleted the Sergeant Snorkel overseas cap the Army was saddled with, and replaced the saucer cap.

My personal opinion: the best all-round hat for fatigue/utility uniforms is the M-1953 patrol cap, with earflaps it is a blessing in winter. The best-LOOKING hat for fatigue wear is the utility hat which the Marines kept from WW2, and the army discarded for the Elvis style coffeecan. The Marines and the Navy chiefs and officers have the best looking "****cutter" (overseas) caps. Great thing about the overseas cap, you can tuck it into your belt and do not have to keep up with your hat when you are inside.

In tropical or desert conditions the boonie hat is ideal.

Griff - To wear with our fatigues, we were issued what you call the coffee can; the inside label reads "Pentomic" which I suppose sounded very modern to the Generals; we didn't even have a name for it. I just thought it looked dumb and made a column of troops look kind of mechanical.

Your ....cutter was our ....cap; looked good, easy, as you say, to tuck in my belt. It was also termed the garrison cap and the overseas cap. Of course, I didn't wear a uniform for most of my three years, so I'm not an expert. And my Army greens, extremely high quality and all wool, now seem to have shrunk.
Regards,
Louis of PA

[Griff Murphey]

Yah my Navy uniform and FMF utilities have shrunk badly, along with my jungle boots.

[Art]

A beret is a worthless piece of headgear. It gets you hot in the summer, dosen't warm you up in the winter and is useless for keeping the sun out of your eyes. Any military hat worn with BDU's, Fatigues, Utilities, dungarees or whatever you want to call them ought to have a brim or a bill. If it has ear flaps that can be tucked in so much the better.

[smle-man]

I'm on my 3rd work uniform with numerous sub variations since 1975. I've done the OG (starched cotton and permanent press) BDU (temperate, light weight, light weight without the take up tabs with and without Elvis collars), the DCU sub class, and now the ACUs. I've worn the baseball cap, the field cap/patrol cap and now the beret. I've had khakis, TWs, Class A slacks with the funny green shirt and soon to be Dress Blues all the time. I've had green windbreakers and black windbreakers. Green raincoat and black raincoat. Green field jacket, BDU field jacket, BDU parka, ACU parka. Saucer cap, P cutter cap, Dress blue saucer cap, black beret. Black boots, tan boots. Brown wool sweaters, Green wooly pully sweaters, black pull over sweater in two weights. I got a $200 uniform allowance in 1977. I think I've spent that many times over since then. I remember the Cav wearing black berets in Germany in the late 70s before the Rangers had it. I hate the beret. It is useless, bakes the brain in the summer, smells like a wet dog when you get caught out in the rain wearing it. The Army changes the uniform constantly and it is almost impossible to keep up. What's the point of the constant changes?

[Bob Womack]

The Army changes the uniform constantly and it is almost impossible to keep up. What's the point of the constant changes?

Why, to be... wait for it... uniform! Of course, every transition does allow opportunity for a pogue to show up on an installation ahead of the memo and harangue everyone for being out of uniform!

Bob

[Art]

There was a period of continuity from the early 1960's to the late 1970's but since then it seems no opportunity has been missed to fiddle with the uniform. My son has been in the Air Farce (misspelling is intentional) for two years and has already had a uniform change. It's a way for the bureaucrats to waste money and nothing else. He does sort of like the new tiger stripe Air Force BDU's though. He just better not get too attached. Change is on the way......

Yep, the attachment dealie works

[Mr Hanky]

I think the Army keeps making drastic changes to their uniforms because they have trouble recruiting. "Oh look we have this new sweet uniform they you'll get to wear" "hey look we have a new slogan or motto this week!" In other words they are trying and can not compete with the Marine Corps who have had the same basic dress uniforms since the early 1800's and the Corps motto "Semper Fidelis" since 1868. Our local Marine Recruiting Station turns many more people away than they accept and the Marines are the only branch to my knowledge that meet or exced their recruiting goals.

[goo]

marine corps is behind the times, i guess. we ain't changed nothing except our warfighting clothes for a long time.
uniform of the day:
"dress blues, tenis shoes and a light coat of oil"

http://usmcshop.grunt.com/prodimg/BS57.jpg

(233 years, unmarred by progress)