Relic 1903A3s at Kwajalein Atoll

[threepdr]

I thought this crowd would find this interesting. I'm out at Kwajalein Atoll to do some archaeological monitoring for a construction project. Kwajalein Atoll was the scene of "Operation Flintlock" in Feb 1944. The 7th Infantry Division took the main island of Kwajalein and the Marine 4th Division took Roi-Namur which is 45 miles north of here. Kwaj is now a US Army missile test range.

Recently the contract Explosive Ordnance Disposal squad was shut down, and they sent all the artifacts they had collected in the last 40 years to storage. These are the things they collected without the on-island archaeologist knowlege and were too big to smuggle off the island

As you would expect there are quite a few weapons in the pile. Unfortunately, no records were kept so the find location and any other context that would be historically helpful were lost. Included are Jap heavy machine guns, light Nambus, 7.7 and 6.5 rifles. There were two M1 Garands, an M1 one carbine and TWO 1903A3 rifles

Although I have photos of 7th ID guys during the battle with 1903s, no relic 1903s are in the artifact collection.

One of the A3s still has all its bands and the clip of a web sling is attached to the middle barrel band sling. The other only retains its upper band. Both have no bolts, or triggerguard assemblies. The TG retaining screws ends are in place and broken off, so I assume the whole sheet metal triggerguards simply disentigrated and rusted off. Niether had any remains of rear sights.

Now the questions is, were these rifles lost/discarded during the battle"? Or were they discarded by the US Navy when they operated a base here from 1944 to the post war years.

If the guys who collected these things had retained at least a little information about where they were found, how deep, and what was found with them, we would know much more. This is why archaeologists don't like folks collecting artifacts from historic sites.

Hopefully I can take a few pics and post them later. Same with any interesting things that might be discovered during the monitoring project.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Calif-Steve]

Items lost in combat were "Combat lost" and dropped from records. It was quite a common event in Viet Nam. However, after the combat ended, lost weapons were found. Whole units would look for a "lost" weapon. Everyone was sweated for that firearm. This stuff was likely lost in combat.

[threepdr]

The question may 03 collectors would like to know is how often the 1903A3s were actually used in combat. If there had been better record keeping, we could add these two to the "used in combat" list. Too bad we'll never know for sure.

[lovemymilsurps]

am I right to assume that the 1903a3 was used a lot in the pacific theater?

[threepdr]

Hopefully JB or others who know more about this subject will chime it.

I don't suspect it is a Pacific vs European Theater that is at issue. I think it is a branch of service issue. With the shortage of M1s early on, the service-support troops in the Army recieved A3s and a large percentage went to the Navy. So for those Navy bases in the Pacific that required small arms, they would arm thier sailor with what they were being provided, namely those brand new 1903A3s which were coming off the assembly lines. So, by default of Navy use, they may have been more common in the Pacific. Back when SRS was still operational I noticed hundreds of 1903A3s listed in inventory for Navy bases in the Marshall Islands (where Kwajalein is located) and other areas.

That is why I'll not make the hard and fast assumption that these rifles were lost in combat during the 1944 battle.

[John Beard]

I have very little information regarding issuances of '03-A3's to various branches of the military.

J.B.

[Jim Tarleton]

Mark,
Even after the M1 was adopted and distributed, every Marine Division had throughout the war, at minimum, 456-1903's or 1903A3's for grenadiers alone (1/25th of all the Marine 03's in 1940), not counting those issued to cooks, supply clerks, musicians, guards, etc. This does not include the 03 sniper rifles. The Marine 03 and 03A3 weren't obsoleted until 24 July 1947.

Pictures of Marine recruits training as late as 1942 show them with 1903's.

Another thing, losing a rifle in combat was forgivable and understandable, but losing one in peacetime would get you brig time in a heartbeat. If you found a rifle in the sand, it was lost in combat. The Marines/Navy threw NOTHING away, particularly weapons. The odds of an 03 or A3 simply being discarded are nearly zilch, almost laughable if you have ever been in the military. If you are issued a TO weapon, the serial number is recorded and you will return it, or face Office Hours and severe punishment. I know that for a fact from personal experience.

Jim

[edlmann]

. . . TWO 1903A3 rifles . . .

If you have the serial numbers, some kind soul with access to SRS data might be able to shed a light on some of this.

[threepdr]

Sorry, serial number will never be read on these rusted things.

I have studied photos of both the 4th Marines and 7th Inf who participated in the landings here. I have seen several shots with 1903s, but there is no photographic evidence of 1903A3s. These photos were all of frontline troops in the Infantry Regiments. I can't speak for what the service support troops may have had.

Jim - as a former Infantry office I'm very familiar with what happens when a weapon is "misplaced" during peace time. It brings scunion on the company involved!

But weapons do get discarded. When my dad's unit demobbed at the end of WWII all property and weapons accountability went out the window. If his bags had not been searched at the Memphis train station by MPs in late 1945, I would have inherited an M1 carbine and M1911A1 they he was bringing home.

An account on this very board a few years ago was of a new sailor reporting to duty on a PT boat in the Pacicfic. On arrival his cheif took his 1903A3 and tossed it overboard and told him he would not need it! I guess he was not too concerned about property accountabilty!

Other archaeological evidence was found up on Roi-Namur island that leads me to believe that Navy personel were not too concerned about the issue.

We discoverd a concrete pad that was poured just after the battle by Navy CBs. The pad had the names of several of these guys written in with finger tips. Had the unit too, but I have since forgotten it. This was on the north side of the island about 100 yards from where PFC Anderson threw his self on a grenade (his own grenade by the way) and won the MOH. Anyway, I degress.

Metal tent stakes were at each corner of the pad. One of those stakes was an M1 Carbine driven into the ground muzzle first. There was still commo wire wrapped around the reciever where the tent had been tied off with it. The trade winds off the ocean had bent the barrel in the direction of the tent. These fellows may have found a carbine lost during the battle, but the obviously placed no value or importance to it. by the way, there were 6 frag grenades buried in a hole just out side the front of the tent pad and a jap soldier in a bomb crater about 15 yards away.

So my point is, I was facinated to see these 1903A3s. I wish I could assume that were lost in combat but I can't because those who collected them did not bother to record any information about them. And we also do know that weapons accountblity during wartime or the end of wars is not what is should be. Still it is cool to see them none-the-less.

[TIZWIN]

Hey all. I'm new to this forum. Sorry to resurrect such an old thread, but as a proud owner of a fine SC M1903A3 and the son of a Kwaj. veteran, I'd love to hear more of this tale!