Lithgow Sniper Rifle No1 MkIII* HT (AUST)/1

[Son]

Just to remind myself to make time to do the pictures and notes needed for Badger to assemble another Milsurp Knowledge Library entry, I thought I'd start a discussion on what rifles we would like to see in there. So far, being almost exclusively a Lee Enfield collector, I have ventured into the realms of the unknown a couple of times and looked up a different rifle. I found the pictorial tours to be very important tools for my education's sake, and would like to recommend everybody take the time out once a week to introduce themselves to something new. We aren't all going to become experts on everything, but we will know where to find the answers if we need them.
The rifle or firearm you thought of recommending.....? Have a look, it may already be there.


....and to satisfy the title of the thread that got you all to have a look, here's a couple of pics of my HT. I have been collecting data on these rifles for several years, and my survey now covers over 5% of production. If anyone would like to know anything about these, just ask away. It'll also give me a clue as to what to include in the blurb with the MKL entry pics.

To Badger- a big public thankyou for your work here.....

Son.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Claven2]

So does that mean you're drafting a new HT MKL entry???

[Badger]

To Badger- a big public thankyou for your work here.....

Son.

You're welcome Brad....

It's been a very enjoyable place so far and it seems to be growing daily. Thanks to several people like you for support, we hope it becomes a very popular international site over the next few years ...

That's a beautiful piece and I think if my better half ~Angel (the family Enfield collector) sees that, she'll be on the first boat to Aussie to visit you.

It's one item we don't currently have an entry in the MKL for, so if you'd like to take and submit a photo montage of pics, please read the thread titled How do I get my article, collectible firearm or accessory published in the Library? (click here).

We'd love to create an entry for your rare and sweet looking HT ...

Regards,
Doug (Badger)

[Son]

You're welcome Brad....

It's been a very enjoyable place so far and it seems to be growing daily. Thanks to several people like you for support, we hope it becomes a very popular international site over the next few years ...

That's a beautiful piece and I think if my better half ~Angel (the family Enfield collector) sees that, she'll be on the first boat to Aussie to visit you.

It's one item we don't currently have an entry in the MKL for, so if you'd like to take and submit a photo montage of pics, please read the thread titled How do I get my article, collectible firearm or accessory published in the Library? (click here).

We'd love to create an entry for your rare and sweet looking HT ...

Regards,
Doug (Badger)

If ~Angel~ makes the trip, come along and we'll all take it and the one below out to play. (gotta do the pics on it too, I promise)

[LithgowHT]

Gday, how far away is the Sunshine Coast from where you are Son? I'd love to take my HT out for a shoot with your nice looking low mount.
Email me back if you like.

[jb303]

Hi,

I have purchased a 1917 SMLE HT (low mount) in good condition with lots of markings and alas no scope, except for the one currently on ebay:

On the rear of the stock it is stamped R then M.A. then 10/47
Rear sight has OA 42 stampings
bolt is stamped 10/47
Barrel serial number is: 60178
Rifle serial number is: 79385
the low mount bases are numbered: 1965

On the barrel it is stamped "H" then H.V then S.C
On the left side of the barrel its stamped 1' 34 and then a crown, then this is followed by a crown stamp with a 3 then L and arrow, this is then followed by another stamping of a crown with 31 then crossed pennants with stampings of L on the top and P on the bottom.

On the right side of the barrel it is stamped with the 7 pointed star three times and under each of theses stars it is stamped 1 for the first 2 for the second and 3 for the last star.

The bolt matches and there is a H stamped on the neck, the magazine is stamped with a star with a 3 underneath the star.

The front wood and rear wood have stampings of SLAZ and J and B with crowns and stars.

I know that this rifle is surplus and God knows where it has been, some people have said it was used in korea? and others seem to think it was used as a police sniper rifle.

I am thinking of restoring this old gem to its former glory in the near future, but I would love to find out a little more about it.

Would appreciate any feedback on the stampings and history if anyone knows where the HT's ended up.

Cheers
John
JB303
John

[Badger]

I am thinking of restoring this old gem to its former glory in the near future, but I would love to find out a little more about it.

Would appreciate any feedback on the stampings and history if anyone knows where the HT's ended up.

Hi John ..

With thanks to Advisory Panel members Lance, Son, John Thorne, Wheaty and Jollygreenslugg for their assistance, there's an entry in the Australia - Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here), complete with a 222 picture photo montage.

Australian No.1 MkIII* H.T. Sniper Rifle (click here)

c/w matching serial number A.O.C. Model 1918 (3x) Scope
(Mfg by Australian Optical Co., Victoria)

c/w Canvas web sling with an inside layer of hard plastic (latex?).
(Mfg in 1941 by B.H.G. Ltd)

This is one of only 481 rifles (short bracket) converted by Lithgow and this particular rifle is documented as having been sent to stores on Sept 19th, 1945.

There are several follow up sections with additional pics noted in the "Collector's Feedback and Comments" section of the main library entry, covering the progressive numbering of mounts and what to look for, pics showing font and stamping examples with extreme close-ups (helpful in spotting incorrect or reproduction components), a discussion of the WWII ersatz canvas sling, a discussion and pictorial comparison of "low" and "high" mount versions of these rifles including A.O.C. scope markings, plus some excellent videos of another H.T. sniper rifle currently in a private collection and also a tour of the Lithgow facility showing video of their internal H.T. collection.

Hope this helps get you started...

Regards,
Badger

[LithgowHT]

Gday buddy I hate to have to say this but there are a few things that seem inconsistent with the rifle..
1. when the upgrade happened, the bolt head was replaced and headspacing set to a more tighter tolerance, look for specific engraving on the head like R58. My rifle shows such an example, also listed in HT modification manual.
2. the cocking piece was always replaced from the old round style as shown to the newer square ribbed shape. Less metal to strike the hand.
3. the barrel was almost always numbered to the action body, in my rifles case there are no numbers on the H barrel, only Lithgow proof marks. Certainly not two serial numbers.
4. the fore end timber was re-stamped SLAZ 44 for instance just below the muzzle, including a timber plug on the underside where the ring bolt previously was. This stamp sometimes denotes reaming to allow for the larger diameter barrel.
5. the H on the but looks too close to the cocking piece and doesn't conform to the standard size or shape. Also check if there is a S N L stamp between the rear sling swivel and brass butt piece, this determines the authenticity of the but timber.
6 at first glance the mounts for the scope seem much too tidy for the overall condition of the rifle, cannot see from the photos but check the punch marks.
7 in some cases underneath the barrel a H is stamped inside the furniture, also not the case with mine.
8 the serial number is not listed in Ian's book, the main reason I didn't buy the rifle myself.

MA is typical of lithgow stamps, the magazine springs are modified as HT standard, as are some rivets, look for a rubber/leather gromet on top of the stock but bolt showing factory authenticity. however these are not critical.

Feel free to send any more pics bloke, I'll gladly have a closer look and might ask Ian if I get a chance, but from what i'm seeing it unfortunately look like a bits a gun. I hope I'm wrong.

[jb303]

Thanks for the feeedback,

I will try and get some better photos of the HT, The cocking piece has the square ribbed type and the front of the bolt head is stamped MA47.

I will list some new photos soon, hope it is not a made up one, The fore end timber is misssing the plug. Good chances it is what it is. Will post photos soon, thanks for the assistance.

John

[LithgowHT]

Got some pics of my HT, all original built on a Lithgow 1916 action, converted in 1944 and I know for a fact used in a major conflict by an Australian Sniper possibly in Korea.
Apart from being used the condition of the bore is the best I have ever seen for a H barrel, the barrel and Bolt head look as new, and no doubt lovingly looked after it's whole life.
The furniture has the usual bumps and scratches associated with a rifle used in this role, I'm not touching anything and It looks to my repeated close scrutiny completely original. Only wish I had the scope.
Enjoy the pics, feel free to ask any questions, the photos show the usual scope mounts, H stamped stock butt and plugged up fore end furniture. And also the N stamp on the Butt underside, denoting normal length.

ANYONE WITH A P1918 /Aust. High mount PLEASE LET ME KNOW. Not here to make a profit, just an enthusiastic collector.