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  1. #21
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    When it comes to fire danger with fiber fillers, based on my range I'd have to say cotton is the most likely to start a fire, kapok the least and wool somewhere in the middle. Cotton and wool tend to stay intact as a mass and to the extent they are smoldering provide enough mass to start a fire. Kapok is most often blown apart into tiny shreds, leaving little mass to start a fire....possible yes, likely no.

    This past fall we had a particularly bad fire danger and I had a couple tufts of wool start grass fires on the range. Normally I can wait until I finish a string of shots before running forward to do the filler-on-fire two-step if necessary. But when it is really dry, like this past fall, I check for any sign of smoldering before loading the next round. Because of my experience I would only use kapok in a round intended for fall hunting.

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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #22
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    In a almost straight walled case,like the 45/70.Dacron is an excellent choice for a filler,even if it does not entirely fill the case.
    All my " serious" loads,in this caliber include a filler of some sort.
    A piece of Dacron,weighing about a grain,when lightly tamped onto the surface of the powder,will keep the powder in place.As afore mentioned,its important to have no space between the filler and the powder.
    For those who are tempted to substitute cotton for Dacron,TAKE THIS TEST.
    Get two glass vials,about the same diameter as the 45/70 cartridge,and load them as you would a cartridge.Put an equal charge of powder in each.Then put an equal weight of Dacron/cotton in them.
    Shake them up,equally,or leave them sit for awhile.You will note that the Dacron has not budged,at all,but the cotton has migrated away from the powder.This allows the powder to seep past the cotton filler,and thus creates a dangerous condition.This is how you get a ringed chamber.
    The reason is that cotton is heavier,and has less loft,then Dacron.If you use cotton,by all means,FILL THE CASE.Keep in mind,that the weight of the filler is figured in the PSI rating of the load.
    It's much simpler to use Dacron.
    My favorite cast bullet load,with my 30'06 and 30 Kragicon,both include Dacron fillers.Just use the same care with fillers that you use with gunpowder.
    Frank

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    Kragman, what you are describing is not filler but a wad. This is where the controversy comes from. We are not talking about wads. We are talking about fillers, items that totally eliminate air space.

    If it doesn’t fill the case, it is not filler, it is a wad.

    Wads are used in reduced load in cases with large volume to hold the powder up to the flash hole, usually in smokeless powder cartridges.

    Fillers are used in large cases with large volumes to eliminate air space, usually in blackpowder cartridges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick View Post
    Still not found an M-H that is isn't a Khyber Pass Special, a wreck, or both.
    BUT ... how about an 1870s Peabody, Connecticut, rebarreled to 45-70? Surely a reloader-friendly solution ... but how do they shoot? Anyone know?

    Patrick
    Patrick,
    If you really want a Martini, IMA/Atlanta Cutlery is the way to go. The weapons are genuine Britishicon manufacture and, particularly in the case of the MKIV, likely to be in as good shooting condition as you'd find elsewhere online for more money. You also have the ultimate safety of a first-rate return policy.

    I have a 45/70 Connecticut Peabody rifle, at some point transformed to carbine complete with bar, ring and several NYNG stampings. Reloading for and shooting it is more like the Trapdoor experience. You aren't dealing with that huge bottle-necked case and the particularities of reloading for it. Then again, I'm not looking for reduced loads and compensating "fillers." Perhaps I'm just a glutton for punishment, but having just spent an afternoon getting reacquainted with some bolt rifles and an M1icon, I find I prefer the kick of the full-house Martini. Nothing a shoulder pad won't solve.

    Victor

    "Always carry a firearm east of Aldgate, Watson."

  7. #25
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    Thanks for the tip, Viclav, but I am living in the middle of Mauserland, and the Martinis on offer are dire.

    Any of you who have seen the film "Khartoum" with Charlton Heston and Laurence Olivier will remember the scene on the Nile where the Brits and friends are fleeing downriver, using M-Hs to fire at the rebels, who, for their part, are blasting back with Rolling Blocks. I do not have an M-H, but I do have an Egyptian Remington, with that nice smooth finish you only get from a century plus of sand abrasion! One fine day, I'll find an Egyptian M-H to go with it...

    Patrick

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDoubleD View Post
    Kragman, what you are describing is not filler but a wad. This is where the controversy comes from. We are not talking about wads. We are talking about fillers, items that totally eliminate air space.

    If it doesn’t fill the case, it is not filler, it is a wad.

    Wads are used in reduced load in cases with large volume to hold the powder up to the flash hole, usually in smokeless powder cartridges.

    Fillers are used in large cases with large volumes to eliminate air space, usually in blackpowder cartridges.
    DoubleD
    Just to clear things up;My post only concerns smokeless powder with a rather large empty space above the powder.
    I wrote to counter the post that labels Dacron as a "demon" that destroys gun chambers.That is plain B S.With proper care,it cannot do any harm.
    Over time,I have conducted many tests,comparing similar loads;with and without Dacron.In many cases,the Dacron load was better then the non Dacron load.In no case,was the non Dacron load better.
    So,for the last 40 years,all my low and medium power 45/70 loads include a filler;usually Dacron.
    Sorry about my loose use of the term"filler".You will find a lot of Shooters,like me.
    Filling the case,usually involves a granular filler.My first was Cream O Wheat.Now,I use PufFlon.
    Frank

  9. #27
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    Kragman,

    The big Martini case starts at a disadvantage in that it has airspace with it standard black powder load.

    Try to make nitro for black loads in the case and powder volume is less the 50%.

    These aren’t reduced loads, they are full service loads. 35 to 40 grains of IMR 4198 will move wads as it bounces around in the truck while out hunting. You have to use filler to retrain this big slug of powder.

    Ross Seyfried in his work with the big Britishicon cartridge uses Dacron. Seyfried says to use just as much Dacron as you can get in the case. Greame Wright in his work at the Birmingham Proof house and with Kynoch came up with floral foam for filler. Kynoch uses a foam plug similar to foam ear plugs. I use kapok myself.

    Like you I find I get better results using filler than without. That is an under statement as without fillers in these big cases I get misfires and failure to fire in the smokeless load. I have experimented with different amounts of filler. I compressed a quantity of filler in the case and then weighed the filler. Then I weighed each lot of filler that went in so each amount was consistent. I could see the difference of weight each lot, versus tearing off some filler and stuffing it which gave poor accuracy.

    I have also used the granular solids and in the bottle neck Martini cases they tend to slug up and stretch case necks.



    The other thing is the amount filler needed to fill the case. The medium sized 45/70 case, even with reduced loads doesn’t use the quantity of fillers these big British cases do. The NfB loads use so much granular solids that most of it didn’t leave the barrel. Puff Lon was the worst. After firing, my cases and action covered in the stuff.



    These two issues made me pass the on granular solids in the Martini case and stick to fiber fillers.

  10. #28
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    DoubleD
    There are two schools of thought on the topic of the amount of filler to put in the case.
    One,insists that the case be filled.This will positively prevent any powder or filler migration.I did a lot of experimenting with this,and find no reason to question it's safety.But in my OPINION,it is not more safe.
    The other,insists that the least amount of filler be used to prevent any problems of a "second projectile"nature.I have loaded and fired many such rounds with not a hint of trouble.The filler is Dacron.
    I prefer to put only enough Dacron in the case to hold the powder in place.
    These rounds are not subject to any harsh treatment.Their shelf life is very short.Hunting rounds,on the other hand,are filled with PufFlon;being careful to not compact it.Compacted PufFlon will form a solid mass.That MAY ring a chamber.(second projectile).
    Frank

  11. #29
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    The only thing I have ever heard associated with ringing is wads, reduced loads of smokeless powder, and air space.

    I have ever heard the secondary projectile associated with a load with a filler, for that matter in my 40 some odd years of playing this game I have never heard of ring in anything but reduced loads.

    The way I have heard second projectile theory stated is that the wad moves forward before the bullet moves after which one of two things are supposed to happen.

    1. the air between wad and bullet base is compressed between wad and the column of compressed air causes the ring

    or


    2. The wad moves forward and impacts the bottom of the bullet and compress and expands causing the ring.


    I don't know which is correct, I do know that the ring occurs just below where the base of bullet is located in the chamber.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDoubleD View Post
    The only thing I have ever heard associated with ringing is wads, reduced loads of smokeless powder, and air space.

    I have ever heard the secondary projectile associated with a load with a filler, for that matter in my 40 some odd years of playing this game I have never heard of ring in anything but reduced loads.

    The way I have heard second projectile theory stated is that the wad moves forward before the bullet moves after which one of two things are supposed to happen.

    1. the air between wad and bullet base is compressed between wad and the column of compressed air causes the ring

    or


    2. The wad moves forward and impacts the bottom of the bullet and compress and expands causing the ring.


    I don't know which is correct, I do know that the ring occurs just below where the base of bullet is located in the chamber.
    DoubleD
    We Agree.
    I have heard all three of those arguments;none of which has any hard evidence to support it of being correct.Any one,or all of them may have some credibility,but maybe none of them do.
    .I personally avoid any load that may involve a "second Projectile".
    I rely on my hands on experience.Properly applied Dacron,or any other filler/wad,will only improve the efficiency of the cartridge load.
    Frank

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