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When it comes to fire danger with fiber fillers, based on my range I'd have to say cotton is the most likely to start a fire, kapok the least and wool somewhere in the middle. Cotton and wool tend to stay intact as a mass and to the extent they are smoldering provide enough mass to start a fire. Kapok is most often blown apart into tiny shreds, leaving little mass to start a fire....possible yes, likely no.
This past fall we had a particularly bad fire danger and I had a couple tufts of wool start grass fires on the range. Normally I can wait until I finish a string of shots before running forward to do the filler-on-fire two-step if necessary. But when it is really dry, like this past fall, I check for any sign of smoldering before loading the next round. Because of my experience I would only use kapok in a round intended for fall hunting.
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05-21-2009 12:37 AM
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In a almost straight walled case,like the 45/70.Dacron is an excellent choice for a filler,even if it does not entirely fill the case.
All my " serious" loads,in this caliber include a filler of some sort.
A piece of Dacron,weighing about a grain,when lightly tamped onto the surface of the powder,will keep the powder in place.As afore mentioned,its important to have no space between the filler and the powder.
For those who are tempted to substitute cotton for Dacron,TAKE THIS TEST.
Get two glass vials,about the same diameter as the 45/70 cartridge,and load them as you would a cartridge.Put an equal charge of powder in each.Then put an equal weight of Dacron/cotton in them.
Shake them up,equally,or leave them sit for awhile.You will note that the Dacron has not budged,at all,but the cotton has migrated away from the powder.This allows the powder to seep past the cotton filler,and thus creates a dangerous condition.This is how you get a ringed chamber.
The reason is that cotton is heavier,and has less loft,then Dacron.If you use cotton,by all means,FILL THE CASE.Keep in mind,that the weight of the filler is figured in the PSI rating of the load.
It's much simpler to use Dacron.
My favorite cast bullet load,with my 30'06 and 30 Krag,both include Dacron fillers.Just use the same care with fillers that you use with gunpowder.
Frank
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Kragman, what you are describing is not filler but a wad. This is where the controversy comes from. We are not talking about wads. We are talking about fillers, items that totally eliminate air space.
If it doesn’t fill the case, it is not filler, it is a wad.
Wads are used in reduced load in cases with large volume to hold the powder up to the flash hole, usually in smokeless powder cartridges.
Fillers are used in large cases with large volumes to eliminate air space, usually in blackpowder cartridges.
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Originally Posted by
Patrick Chadwick
Still not found an M-H that is isn't a Khyber Pass Special, a wreck, or both.
BUT ... how about an 1870s Peabody, Connecticut, rebarreled to 45-70? Surely a reloader-friendly solution ... but how do they shoot? Anyone know?
Patrick
Patrick,
If you really want a Martini, IMA/Atlanta Cutlery is the way to go. The weapons are genuine British manufacture and, particularly in the case of the MKIV, likely to be in as good shooting condition as you'd find elsewhere online for more money. You also have the ultimate safety of a first-rate return policy.
I have a 45/70 Connecticut Peabody rifle, at some point transformed to carbine complete with bar, ring and several NYNG stampings. Reloading for and shooting it is more like the Trapdoor experience. You aren't dealing with that huge bottle-necked case and the particularities of reloading for it. Then again, I'm not looking for reduced loads and compensating "fillers." Perhaps I'm just a glutton for punishment, but having just spent an afternoon getting reacquainted with some bolt rifles and an M1, I find I prefer the kick of the full-house Martini. Nothing a shoulder pad won't solve.
Victor
"Always carry a firearm east of Aldgate, Watson."
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Thanks for the tip, Viclav, but I am living in the middle of Mauserland, and the Martinis on offer are dire.
Any of you who have seen the film "Khartoum" with Charlton Heston and Laurence Olivier will remember the scene on the Nile where the Brits and friends are fleeing downriver, using M-Hs to fire at the rebels, who, for their part, are blasting back with Rolling Blocks. I do not have an M-H, but I do have an Egyptian Remington, with that nice smooth finish you only get from a century plus of sand abrasion! One fine day, I'll find an Egyptian M-H to go with it...
Patrick
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Originally Posted by
TheDoubleD
Kragman, what you are describing is not filler but a wad. This is where the controversy comes from. We are not talking about wads. We are talking about fillers, items that totally eliminate air space.
If it doesn’t fill the case, it is not filler, it is a wad.
Wads are used in reduced load in cases with large volume to hold the powder up to the flash hole, usually in smokeless powder cartridges.
Fillers are used in large cases with large volumes to eliminate air space, usually in blackpowder cartridges.
DoubleD
Just to clear things up;My post only concerns smokeless powder with a rather large empty space above the powder.
I wrote to counter the post that labels Dacron as a "demon" that destroys gun chambers.That is plain B S.With proper care,it cannot do any harm.
Over time,I have conducted many tests,comparing similar loads;with and without Dacron.In many cases,the Dacron load was better then the non Dacron load.In no case,was the non Dacron load better.
So,for the last 40 years,all my low and medium power 45/70 loads include a filler;usually Dacron.
Sorry about my loose use of the term"filler".You will find a lot of Shooters,like me.
Filling the case,usually involves a granular filler.My first was Cream O Wheat.Now,I use PufFlon.
Frank
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DoubleD
There are two schools of thought on the topic of the amount of filler to put in the case.
One,insists that the case be filled.This will positively prevent any powder or filler migration.I did a lot of experimenting with this,and find no reason to question it's safety.But in my OPINION,it is not more safe.
The other,insists that the least amount of filler be used to prevent any problems of a "second projectile"nature.I have loaded and fired many such rounds with not a hint of trouble.The filler is Dacron.
I prefer to put only enough Dacron in the case to hold the powder in place.
These rounds are not subject to any harsh treatment.Their shelf life is very short.Hunting rounds,on the other hand,are filled with PufFlon;being careful to not compact it.Compacted PufFlon will form a solid mass.That MAY ring a chamber.(second projectile).
Frank
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The only thing I have ever heard associated with ringing is wads, reduced loads of smokeless powder, and air space.
I have ever heard the secondary projectile associated with a load with a filler, for that matter in my 40 some odd years of playing this game I have never heard of ring in anything but reduced loads.
The way I have heard second projectile theory stated is that the wad moves forward before the bullet moves after which one of two things are supposed to happen.
1. the air between wad and bullet base is compressed between wad and the column of compressed air causes the ring
or
2. The wad moves forward and impacts the bottom of the bullet and compress and expands causing the ring.
I don't know which is correct, I do know that the ring occurs just below where the base of bullet is located in the chamber.
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Originally Posted by
TheDoubleD
The only thing I have ever heard associated with ringing is wads, reduced loads of smokeless powder, and air space.
I have ever heard the secondary projectile associated with a load with a filler, for that matter in my 40 some odd years of playing this game I have never heard of ring in anything but reduced loads.
The way I have heard second projectile theory stated is that the wad moves forward before the bullet moves after which one of two things are supposed to happen.
1. the air between wad and bullet base is compressed between wad and the column of compressed air causes the ring
or
2. The wad moves forward and impacts the bottom of the bullet and compress and expands causing the ring.
I don't know which is correct, I do know that the ring occurs just below where the base of bullet is located in the chamber.
DoubleD
We Agree.
I have heard all three of those arguments;none of which has any hard evidence to support it of being correct.Any one,or all of them may have some credibility,but maybe none of them do.
.I personally avoid any load that may involve a "second Projectile".
I rely on my hands on experience.Properly applied Dacron,or any other filler/wad,will only improve the efficiency of the cartridge load.
Frank