A few questions about the Berthier Carbine

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03-22-2015, 04:32 PM
Georgy_K_Zhukov

A few questions about the Berthier Carbine

So I recently picked up a Berthier Carbine.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../ZiyTdNs-1.jpg

It was totally on a whim though, so I must admit that I know very little about what I now have! What I do know:

- Marked "Châtellerault" and "Mle 1892", which I believe makes it an "Artillerie" model? It has the M16 5-round magazine.

- Serials are all matching (Bayonet is not matched), "A 23XXX"

- "N" is stamped on the receiver, which I believe indicates it was updated in 1932 for higher pressure (?) ammunition.

- No rod. Channel is filled in.

- Stacking pin looks like it was cut off.

- I haven't done a full take down yet, but am I correct that the date of manufacture should be under the handguard on the receiver?

Like I said, this was on a whim, and I haven't ventured into French guns before. Any pointers on a good source or two to pick up would be highly appreciated, as would just some good tips on what I've got here!
03-22-2015, 06:32 PM
Eaglelord17

I don't know too much about French Rifles, but I believe after WWI most of the older Berthier rifles with the 3rd magazines were updated to the M16 style magazine, to ease ammunition issues and as a general upgrade (better to have 5rds than 3rds).
03-22-2015, 09:01 PM
Georgy_K_Zhukov

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglelord17

I don't know too much about French Rifles, but I believe after WWI most of the older Berthier rifles with the 3rd magazines were updated to the M16style magazine, to ease ammunition issues and as a general upgrade (better to have 5rds than 3rds).

Yep. As this one is marked Mle 1892, I assume it started as a 3rd and was updated to the 5rd, since it seems like later ones are marked as M16s from the start. Need to break it down and see if I can find the manufacture date to be sure though.
03-23-2015, 12:46 AM
jmoore

Probably has the block front sight as well. (as shown in my avatar photo for some time) I have found the Prvi Partisan ammunition does well in these carbines.
03-23-2015, 11:24 AM
burb1989

Great little carbine you picked up Georgy. I have one too but mine is a different model. It came out of the jungles of Vietnam sometime during 1967 and 1969 (not sure which as the seller wasn't sure of when his father captured it). Yours is in great shape too. Mine looks like it got run over by a truck and left in the jungle for forty years:lol:. Sadly when I picked mine up it had the wrong three shot trigger assembly but I found a correct five shot assembly and a rear sling swivel to replace the broken one on it. You're correct about the build date. Just remove the top handguard and there should be a three letter sequence followed by a year. That'll tell you which arsenal assembled the rifle and what year it was assembled. Mine is the same serial prefix as yours but many thousand rifles newer (A 33XXX). Hope you enjoy your carbine and have fun shooting it:thup:.
03-23-2015, 03:20 PM
UNPROFOR1994

It was a "mousqueton d'artillerie modèle 1892" transformed to the "mousqueton d'artillerie modèle 1916" configuration in 1916, in 1927 they removed the cleaning rod and plugged the hole, in 1932 they adapted it for the heavier 8mm "N" bullet. In this final configuration it was used during WW2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Georgy_K_Zhukov

- Stacking pin looks like it was cut off.

It isn't cut, it is the normal early Model 1892 type, later you also had a curved and straight one.

Your front sling swivel (ring) is on the wrong side, it should be on the left side.
03-25-2015, 09:00 PM
Georgy_K_Zhukov

Thanks for the info everyone! I do have one question for you though @UNPROFOR1994. You mention that:

Quote:

It isn't cut, it is the normal early Model 1892 type, later you also had a curved and straight one.

Do you mean that some just didn't have a stacking pin? Cause as you can see in this close shot:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../w0BXjX7-1.jpg

There is the nub where it ought to project from, but it just isn't there, hence why I suspected it had been cut off.
03-25-2015, 10:02 PM
UNPROFOR1994

Quote:

Originally Posted by Georgy_K_Zhukov

Do you mean that some just didn't have a stacking pin?

Yes there was a type with no stacking pin. Your close shot is better and now I think it's a curved one that has been cut.
03-26-2015, 08:33 PM
Georgy_K_Zhukov

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNPROFOR1994

Yes there was a type with no stacking pin. Your close shot is better and now I think it's a curved one that has been cut.

Got it! Thanks.