5 Attachment(s)
Should I buy this "Brown Bess"?
Greetings,
Sebastian from Germany here.
I convinced my family to buy our father an original Brown Bess for his 60th birthday.
Problem is, no one here has any experience in black powder guns.
A few days ago, I saw this on an auction website:
"Brown Bess Musket - original"
Kal. 20mm - smooth - length: 138cm/54,33 inch.
"TOWER" stamp on the lock.
Corrosion on the lock and barrel. Restored.
Attachment 84521Attachment 84522Attachment 84520Attachment 84518Attachment 84519
My concerns:
- No engraving (crown, etc.) on the lock
- The proof marks are looking kind of blurred
- The overall length and caliber don't seem to fit to any model
- The dealer just wants approximately 750€/838$. This seems to cheap.
So what are the experts thinking?
Is this gun genuine and worth the cost?
Thanks
Sebastian
Reconversion from percussion?
IMHO not an all-correct original. It may well be that all the parts are original. But the area around the touch-hole looks odd. There is a small projecting tube that does not line up properly with the pan, and there is remarkable unevenness around this vestigial tube.
The non-standard barrel length often indicates that the barrel was shortened, because of an excessively worn or damaged muzzle. And 20mm bore diameter sounds like extreme wear. The barrel is probably very, very thin at the muzzle end.
I suspect this might be a musket that was converted to percussion in the 19th. century, and then reconverted to flintlock in more recent times. What we are looking at is either the remains of the drum that was (probably) brazed onto the barrel when it was converted to percussion (so-called drum-and-nipple conversion), and which has been ground down to leave the ignition channel in the drum to serve as a touch-hole or an piece of tube welded in to replace a rusted-out touch-hole. Hence the mismatch with the pan.
That's about as far as I can go without a hands-on inspection. I think this gun has been advertised for a long time, as I keep a close watch on such items. It is not a bargain, and I would not buy it.
Keep on trying - the forum will help you!
https://www.milsurps.com/images/tact...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Gabbo https://www.milsurps.com/images/tact...post-right.png
We got a limit of 700€. Would you say, it is possible to get a original from a trustworthy dealer in the stated price range?
Yes, I have done so. I must qualify that: it depends on the desirability for collectors. So an all-original Charleville or Brown Bess - no. And any musket in good shooting condition - also no. But a non US/French/British musket - yes, with patience. Ditto for flintlock pistols. There are a lot of pistols about, as they were easily kept and then forgotten. It is regrettably so that fakes prevail in the world of flintlock arms. Especially since a licence is not required, so anyone can purchase one to hang on the wall.
BTW, does it have to be a flintlock? A very large number of serviceable muskets were converted to percussion in the 1820s-40s. An M1822T (the transformed - Transfomé - version of the classic French musket) will only cost a fraction of an original flintlock, and having been selected for conversion is possibly in better condition than most flintlocks.
As to dealers: good dealers know that they cannot be experts in everything, and are sometimes fooled by false claims made by the owner. Since they are usually working on a commission basis to save VAT, they often do not spend much time on checking what they have for sale. But good dealers will take back a gun that proves to be a dud.
So give yourself some time and do not let yourself be pushed into a hasty decision because of a fixed date, such as a birthday or Christmas. One learns by looking at duds - it took me 4 years to find an all-original, good-shooting Martini-Henry. In that time I must have seen enough wrecks and Khyber Pass Specials to equip a couple of companies, and learnt that an album full of photographs cannot replace a hands-on inspection.
Anyway, you have done the right thing in coming to this forum. There are a lot of sharp eyes studying what is posted here, and although no-one will give you a guarantee that something is original, based purely on photos, you may be sure that a fake will almost certainly be detected.
---------- Post added at 11:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:06 AM ----------
https://www.milsurps.com/images/tact...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Gabbo https://www.milsurps.com/images/tact...post-right.png
We got a limit of 700€. Would you say, it is possible to get a original from a trustworthy dealer in the stated price range?
Yes, I have done so. I must qualify that: it depends on the desirability for collectors. So an all-original Charleville or Brown Bess - no. And any musket in good shooting condition - also no. But a non US/French/British musket - yes, with patience. Ditto for flintlock pistols. There are a lot of pistols about, as they were easily kept and then forgotten. It is regrettably so that fakes prevail in the world of flintlock arms. Especially since a licence is not required, so anyone can purchase one to hang on the wall.
BTW, does it have to be a flintlock? A very large number of serviceable muskets were converted to percussion in the 1820s-40s. An M1822T (the transformed - Transfomé - version of the classic French musket) will only cost a fraction of an original flintlock, and having been selected for conversion is possibly in better condition than most flintlocks.
As to dealers: good dealers know that they cannot be experts in everything, and are sometimes fooled by false claims made by the owner. Since they are usually working on a commission basis to save VAT, they often do not spend much time on checking what they have for sale. But good dealers will take back a gun that proves to be a dud.
So give yourself some time and do not let yourself be pushed into a hasty decision because of a fixed date, such as a birthday or Christmas. One learns by looking at duds - it took me 4 years to find an all-original, good-shooting Martini-Henry. In that time I must have seen enough wrecks and Khyber Pass Specials to equip a couple of companies, and learnt that an album full of photographs cannot replace a hands-on inspection.
Anyway, you have done the right thing in coming to this forum. There are a lot of sharp eyes studying what is posted here, and although no-one will give you a guarantee that something is original, based purely on photos, you may be sure that a fake will almost certainly be detected.
