Should I buy this "Brown Bess"?

[Gabbo]

If that includes your father, as the intended recipient of the present, are you sure that it is a wise idea to spend a lot of money on a supposedly genuine original, with the real risk of being fooled by a plausible-looking fake? There are a lot of good replicas around.

He's collecting black powder weapons for about 5 years now, so i would not call him an expert.
Point taken. I guess this was the wrong way to get him a genuine weapon.
Lets try another. We got a limit of 700€. Would you say, it is possible to get a original from a trustworthy dealer in the stated price range?

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Originally Posted by Gabbo
We got a limit of 700€. Would you say, it is possible to get a original from a trustworthy dealer in the stated price range?



Yes, I have done so. I must qualify that: it depends on the desirability for collectors. So an all-original Charleville or Brown Bess - no. And any musket in good shooting condition - also no. But a non US/French/British musket - yes, with patience. Ditto for flintlock pistols. There are a lot of pistols about, as they were easily kept and then forgotten. It is regrettably so that fakes prevail in the world of flintlock arms. Especially since a licence is not required, so anyone can purchase one to hang on the wall.

BTW, does it have to be a flintlock? A very large number of serviceable muskets were converted to percussion in the 1820s-40s. An M1822T (the transformed - Transfomé - version of the classic French musket) will only cost a fraction of an original flintlock, and having been selected for conversion is possibly in better condition than most flintlocks.


As to dealers: good dealers know that they cannot be experts in everything, and are sometimes fooled by false claims made by the owner. Since they are usually working on a commission basis to save VAT, they often do not spend much time on checking what they have for sale. But good dealers will take back a gun that proves to be a dud.

So give yourself some time and do not let yourself be pushed into a hasty decision because of a fixed date, such as a birthday or Christmas. One learns by looking at duds - it took me 4 years to find an all-original, good-shooting Martini-Henry. In that time I must have seen enough wrecks and Khyber Pass Specials to equip a couple of companies, and learnt that an album full of photographs cannot replace a hands-on inspection.

Anyway, you have done the right thing in coming to this forum. There are a lot of sharp eyes studying what is posted here, and although no-one will give you a guarantee that something is original, based purely on photos, you may be sure that a fake will almost certainly be detected.

---------- Post added at 11:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:06 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Gabbo
We got a limit of 700€. Would you say, it is possible to get a original from a trustworthy dealer in the stated price range?


Yes, I have done so. I must qualify that: it depends on the desirability for collectors. So an all-original Charleville or Brown Bess - no. And any musket in good shooting condition - also no. But a non US/French/British musket - yes, with patience. Ditto for flintlock pistols. There are a lot of pistols about, as they were easily kept and then forgotten. It is regrettably so that fakes prevail in the world of flintlock arms. Especially since a licence is not required, so anyone can purchase one to hang on the wall.


BTW, does it have to be a flintlock? A very large number of serviceable muskets were converted to percussion in the 1820s-40s. An M1822T (the transformed - Transfomé - version of the classic French musket) will only cost a fraction of an original flintlock, and having been selected for conversion is possibly in better condition than most flintlocks.

As to dealers: good dealers know that they cannot be experts in everything, and are sometimes fooled by false claims made by the owner. Since they are usually working on a commission basis to save VAT, they often do not spend much time on checking what they have for sale. But good dealers will take back a gun that proves to be a dud.

So give yourself some time and do not let yourself be pushed into a hasty decision because of a fixed date, such as a birthday or Christmas. One learns by looking at duds - it took me 4 years to find an all-original, good-shooting Martini-Henry. In that time I must have seen enough wrecks and Khyber Pass Specials to equip a couple of companies, and learnt that an album full of photographs cannot replace a hands-on inspection.

Anyway, you have done the right thing in coming to this forum. There are a lot of sharp eyes studying what is posted here, and although no-one will give you a guarantee that something is original, based purely on photos, you may be sure that a fake will almost certainly be detected.