They shot Trump

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jond41403

What thread have you been reading? When did I say snipers were on that roof? Everybody has known the whole time the counter snipers were on two different roofs haha!The whole argument is the director never put snipers on that roof. And you defended basically the secret service directors assessment that it was dangerous by saying there could be underlying causes of safety measure issues that we don't know of or in the public domain. All those people on that small patch of roof near the shooter proves that there was no underlying safety precautions that you seem to think existed. You are the only one that thinks that by the way.the counter snipers were on two different roofs , Yes they sure were, the secret service counter snipers right behind Trump stage left and stage right on two different barn roofs. keep grasping at straws my man haha. Sometimes it can be wonderfully funny when some people can't stand to be even a little bit wrong haha. They start bickering like a lawyer , grasping at any straw that can keep their argument afloat haha

---

I know clearly what I am thinking and posting, yet you contradict almost every single word that I post on this thread. My thoughts are equally as valid as your's. It is you that is doing the bickering by constantly contradicting almost everything that I post on this thread.

I did not bring up the issue of "roof safety" initially but I did attempt to try and explain why it might have been a consideration for someone trying to make decisions, in the heat of the moment on the day. I do have some experience of working on flat roofs and I don't use safety harnesses because I don't have to but I still take certain safety precautions applicable to the roof that I am on.

You are looking at everything with the benefit of hindsight which, unfortunately, the people on the day, making the decisions, did not have.

How you seem to think that you know exactly what happened on the day and anyone else with alternative ideas as to why things may have happened as they did is wrong, I don't know. The reality is that very little is known for sure and that is why an investigation is being carried out.

As for "trolling" you are talking nonsense.

:rofl:

---------- Post added at 10:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 PM ----------

Anybody else reminded of the"who's on first"skit?

All right, gentlemen. Drop it and go on. We want to keep our discussions civil and not get into personal fights.

Bob

I heard some of the Congressmen's views after their visit to the site but have not seen any of their videos yet. All who spoke said the one big glaring issue as they entered the property was the overwhelming presence of the water tower which was completely unmanned.

One conducted his own experiments shooting with an AR-15 at the same distance and similar conditions and had a positive hit on 15 of 16 shots with the 16th hitting in the ear. I'm not going to go into this that much because I'm a shooter, consider myself a good shot but a head shot over 100 yards isn't going to be as simple as everyone makes it out to be. Prone helps considerably but being pressured by the police which we now know were there in the very moment before he took the shot makes it difficult. Had he been wise, he would have taken a body shot. I've killed a lot of deer over the years but I don't shoot them in the head and the vast majority of them were within 75 yards and I'm using a scope and true high-power rifle. They move, Trump moved, targets don't move. Under existing conditions, I'd say it's a 50/50 chance.

One of the fellows was 70 years old and had no trouble climbing a ladder and walking on the roof, although with all the photos and videos of people on that roof we can stop talking about it being hazardous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sapper740

Anderson Arms AM10 puts 168 gr. SMKs into 1 inch at 100 yds all day long

---

Picture # 1 ~ Fired this group prone on the grass off a bi-pod no rear bag, 5 shots in 23.3 mm 168gn A-Max handloads APRS G series Rem 700 blue printed with a Kreiger fluted 1-10 heavy brl wild dog stock, NF competition scope 15-55.
Pictures # 2 - 3 ~ It will do .3's off a bench at 100M if I do my bit.

Note ~ In our military shooting series we are now forbidden to shoot at Fig - 11 & 12 targets we can only have bulls eyes, what a nannie state we live in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aragorn243

I heard some of the Congressmen's views after their visit to the site but have not seen any of their videos yet. All who spoke said the one big glaring issue as they entered the property was the overwhelming presence of the water tower which was completely unmanned.

One conducted his own experiments shooting with an AR-15 at the same distance and similar conditions and had a positive hit on 15 of 16 shots with the 16th hitting in the ear. I'm not going to go into this that much because I'm a shooter, consider myself a good shot but a head shot over 100 yards isn't going to be as simple as everyone makes it out to be. Prone helps considerably but being pressured by the police which we now know were there in the very moment before he took the shot makes it difficult. Had he been wise, he would have taken a body shot. I've killed a lot of deer over the years but I don't shoot them in the head and the vast majority of them were within 75 yards and I'm using a scope and true high-power rifle. They move, Trump moved, targets don't move. Under existing conditions, I'd say it's a 50/50 chance.

One of the fellows was 70 years old and had no trouble climbing a ladder and walking on the roof, although with all the photos and videos of people on that roof we can stop talking about it being hazardous.

---

I agree about the shot not being as simple as we have commented because like you say a moving target is completely different than a paper target. Not to mention the wind which I don't know if it was windy that day or not but at 140 yards, the wind certainly can affect things

I don't understand the "moving target" comments. I've watched the video too many times to count now.

Start the clock...
TRUMP: "That's a little bit old now...that chart......"

7.5 seconds after the word "That's" in the sentence above, the first shot rings out. Likely longer. The video I just pulled up now starts at the sentence above.

Was the shooter nervous? sure. Because of what, cops, adrenaline? who cares - irrelevant. Being a good shot is more than just fundamentals of a shooting position, sight picture, etc. It's also about staying relatively calm under pressure. He likely had not developed that skill, and Trump is alive because of it.
So his mistake was either
a) going for the head shot when he had a perfect, stationary, center-of-mass to aim at. (I have not seen the optics/site on the rifle used yet.) or
b) he really was a poor shot, all things considered.

Even with a head shot and the target bobbing around, I don't think his head was moving enough to completely clear the sight picture at that distance, borderline with irons, certainly not with any magnification. I completely understand rushing and missing shots 2-8, but not so much the first one. This puts him in (b) above, likely with (a) compounding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ssgross

I don't understand the "moving target" comments. I've watched the video too many times to count now.

Start the clock...
TRUMP: "That's a little bit old now...that chart......"

7.5 seconds after the word "That's" in the sentence above, the first shot rings out. Likely longer. The video I just pulled up now starts at the sentence above.

Was the shooter nervous? sure. Because of what, cops, adrenaline? who cares - irrelevant. Being a good shot is more than just fundamentals of a shooting position, sight picture, etc. It's also about staying relatively calm under pressure. He likely had not developed that skill, and Trump is alive because of it.
So his mistake was either
a) going for the head shot when he had a perfect, stationary, center-of-mass to aim at. (I have not seen the optics/site on the rifle used yet.) or
b) he really was a poor shot, all things considered.

Even with a head shot and the target bobbing around, I don't think his head was moving enough to completely clear the sight picture at that distance, borderline with irons, certainly not with any magnification. I completely understand rushing and missing shots 2-8, but not so much the first one. This puts him in (b) above, likely with (a) compounding.

---

I think just mainly his head was moving. I recently saw a computer generated recreation of when the bullets were fired and how Trump moved his head at the same time. I wish I knew where I saw that because it wasn't on YouTube I've already checked My history. The illustration I saw if correct, shows he turned his head at the moment of the first shot and tilted it just a hair allowing the bullet to go through his ear. The same simulation showed that if Trump had not turned his head and tilted it at that exact moment, it would have went somewhere near the temple area or above his right eye in the forehead. So in reality the shooter wasn't a totally bad shot, I think it was just a combination of things like Charlie mentioned where the cop right before the shooting probably made the shooter rush his first shot not knowing when the police were going to be climbing up after him. But one would think that the shooter should have known he at least had time to carefully aim the first shot and then maybe have to rush the rest of the shots. If the local police were supposed to be on top of that building and truly left because it was too hot, then that hot roof might have played a role too in him missing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CINDERS

Picture # 1 ~ Fired this group prone on the grass off a bi-pod no rear bag, 5 shots in 23.3 mm 168gn A-Max handloads APRS G series Rem 700 blue printed with a Kreiger fluted 1-10 heavy brl wild dog stock, NF competition scope 15-55.
Pictures # 2 - 3 ~ It will do .3's off a bench at 100M if I do my bit.

Note ~ In our military shooting series we are now forbidden to shoot at Fig - 11 & 12 targets we can only have bulls eyes, what a nannie state we live in.

---

I get the same size groups as you do.....at 30 yards. :) For some unknown reason Anderson Arms has a reputation as a "Poors" rifle i.e. for poor people who can't afford a more expensive one. At least, that's the blather from the Illuminati on sites such as AR15.com. I pay no heed to loudmouths and bought two Anderson Arms rifles, one an AR15, the other an AM10. All I added to the AM10 ($995.00)was a Nikon P308 scope ($199.00), a Geiselle SSA-E trigger ($299.00), a muzzle break ($65.00), and a good quality bipod ($125.00) so for less than $1,700 I've got a minute of angle rifle semi-automatic rifle.

FBI Director testified that Crooks had purchased a 5 foot ladder prior to the rally but it was not found at the scene. His current thoughts were after Crooks played cat and mouse during the 'Suspicious Person' chase was that Crooks shimmied up a electrical conduit then on to the short roof then on to the main roof. Same roof he shot from and same roof he was filmed on by rally attendees that were calling out his position. Next was the 2 local LEO's with 1 being hoisted up and spotting Crooks who turned and pointed his rifle at the LEO who dropped to the ground. Crooks shimmied to the roof's ridge where he likely seen the 2 - 2 man Sniper teams. Then while out of breath, his heart racing and hearing the rally attendees shouting at him from the ground proceeded to take the 8 shots @ Trump from 130 yards away. All the while knowing he was going to be shot back at. Was this Death by Cop? Was he on Dope? IDK.

All ask how could he not get a head shot?? Or why not go for center mass?

Crooks had likely done his homework and knew that Trump has worn a bulletproof vest on the campaign trail since March 2016 after his rallies grew increasingly violent. At one campaign stop in Ohio, Secret Service agents swarmed the candidate as one protester tried to make his way onto the stage where Trump was speaking. Trump told a reporter from New York Magazine: “has added to his discomfort on the stump, leaving him sweaty and spent after events.”

Shooting Man vs Shooting Paper
Whole different mind set here. With all the running around and the encircling pressure coming down on Crooks he was either lucky to be as accurate as he was or better skilled than being given credit for.

The Term Buck Fever
Heard of it? I've had guys hunt my property that could shoot good groups on paper all day. But come Deer season when a nice Buck shows itself and that guy catches a glimpse of those antlers they couldn't hit the side of the barn. I've found many a Deer on the back 120 weeks later that suffered from 'Hail Mary' shots. Or seen Deer go by with a arrow in it's rear quarter.

This picture is from a early spring round up of dead Deer shot by guys that I let hunt who had the Fever