Help needed for Lithgow rifle ID

G'day,

Sorry I've been away and missed this post.

You have an Aussie SMLE which has been surplussed after the war and converted into a target-shooter's range rifle. The rifle itself is a pretty common garden-variety Lithgow No1. The receiver was made in 1942 but the rifle was completed and stocked up in 1943. Pretty common to have a later date on the buttstock than the one on the receiver.

The full-length top wood is a popular postwar modification. As target shooters used peepsights like the one fitted to your rifle, there was no need for the military rearsight. As the standard military wood was comprised of a front and a rear handguard, removing the rearsight, rearsight mount and sight protector left a big open space. To stop heat haze changing the sight picture, one-piece top woods were popular.

It is possible that your rifle has been rebarreled with a heavy barrel. These were popular for target shooters, and are a 25.5inch barrel which uses the heavier profile of the earlier Long Lee barrel of 30.2 inches, just at the shorter length for better accuracy.

As No4MkI(T) said, if the knox form (flat part just forward of where the barrel screws into the receiver) has a capital H stamped into it, then that shows it is a heavy barrel. These were often fitted after the war.

The HV refers to the higher velocity MkVII round. Early rifles were sighted to suit the round-nosed MkVI round, but when the MkVII round appeared around 1911, rifles had to have their rear sight beds modified slightly as the new round was of a higher velocity.

For some obscure reason, Aussie rifles were marked on the buttstock with HV, even decades after the MkVII round became the norm.

Nice rifle, you could return it to military trim with a bit of work, or keep it as-is for range shooting.

Cheers,
Matt

Thanks jollygreenslug. The photos tell the whole story. The upper wood is very similar to what was used on the Mk.V rifles of the 1922 to 1924 era. If the rifle does have the “H” on the knox form I would leave it as is as it’s an exhalant example of part of the Lee Enfield history as a target rifle.

HV = High Velocity, e.g. MkVII ammo. On Brit guns, the same markings is found behind the rear sight stamped into the barrel as:

HV
SC

Which stands for "High Velocity, Short Cone" - also a reference to the switch from earlier ammo to the modern MkVII round.

Thanks for all the reply's guys, the information has been excellent :)
I think i will be leaving it the way it is, mainly because i have possibly found another addition to start off my collection.
So here is another question... if you manage to find a rifle (another MkIII) that someone was willing to get rid of, but it was unlicensed and had been so for a fair while, what would be the chances of getting it registered??

I'll PM you. You never know who's reading discussion forums!

Cheers,
Matt

Give it a nice cleaning, tidy up that left side and put a new coat of Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO) on her and have fun.

An 'H' on the barrel knox or near the receiver, means it was produced only in Australia and has a heavier barrel. An H.T. stamp signifies sniper configuration and is fitted with a heavy barrel.

Thanks for all the help guys, just went and bought myself a couple of skennerton books for a bit of light reading. Very very interesting rifles!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by No4Mk1(T)

I couldn’t find any reference to an HV marked Lithgow other than the “High Velocity” mark behind the back sight. Just the HT. Still have a look for an “H” on the barrel knox form (the flat area just in front of the receiver ring on the top of the barrel). As Gary D said photos would be a big help (well, at least for me)

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Yup the H.V does stand for high velocity, this was when the ammunition was upgraded to MK VII Ball, this happened early 40s and also meant the flip sight ramp was machined down slightly making the sights conform to the more flat shooting MK VII rounds.
Flip sight removed this is most likely a target rifle, the barrel could have been installed by an armourer or by lithgow itself, lithgow usually left stampings on the barrel.
Now if the rifle was converted in the 30s and used in WW2 as a marksmans rifle, the flip sight would have been re-installed, also the peep sights removed and a H stamped on the but piece behind the cocking mechanism.
Also check if the action body serial is also stamped on the barrel, this is not always the case but proves lithgow modification.
Heavy barrel rifles are good shooters, the rifling is quite different to the standard barrels and bears resemblance to the metfords.
Phew! too much typing, good shooting!

The MkVII round was introduced in 1910 firing a 160 grain spitzer projectile, but was quickly upgraded to a 147 grain pill which remained the norm. Early SMLEs often show signs of being upgraded from MKVI to MKVII standards as you mention, but the rifle in question was produced in 1942 so it was well after the changeover.

During WW1, the MkVI round was still manufactured in some places; I have some 1917 Aussie MkVI.

Every WW2 Lithgow rifle I've encountered has the HV stamping on the butt. Not sure why, three decades on. The HV SC near the rearsight is common too.

The marksman rifles of which you speak are an interesting breed. They were introduced from the early 30s, with a heavy barrel being factory fitted. They also used an aperture sight, and one can usually tell such a rifle by the small cutaway or area of crushed wood on the left hand side where the aperture mount sat. As you mention, a capital H was stamped into the top of the buttstock just behind the buttsocket.

I don't know how many such rifles were converted, but many of them were used as the basis for HT rifles from 1944 onwards. I'm guessing there aren't too many around today.

I have one, a 1915 Lithgow, with all the features mentioned above. Nice rifle, that.

Cheers,
Matt