Help needed for Lithgow rifle ID

[smash1911]

Hi Everyone.

I need some help identifying a .303
On the right side of the stock is a few stampings.

M.A
Lithgow
SMLE
D85496
III* HV

1943

All the numbers match on the rifle, except for two dates, one being 1943 on the stock and 1942 that is stamped on the ring just behind the trigger.

The rifle doesnt have a steel rear sight as i have seen many of the enfield fitted with, but rather it has been fitted with a peep sight of some description.
It would be great if someone could shed some more light on this rifle, as it seems to be just a little outside of most of the descriptions i have read about this rifle.
Any help would be greatly appreciated

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Gary D]

I'm not a Lithgow expert but until someone more knowledgeable chimes in, here are my impressions, keeping in mind pictures would definitely help. Sounds like it was converted to a target rifle and likely received different wood at the time. If the front sight has been removed and it has a one piece upper handguard, there is also the possibility it has a heavy barrel. Not military stock, but not one that many would turn their nose up at either. Of course I could be way out in left field here too.

[No4Mk1(T)]

I couldn’t find any reference to an HV marked Lithgow other than the “High Velocity” mark behind the back sight. Just the HT. Still have a look for an “H” on the barrel knox form (the flat area just in front of the receiver ring on the top of the barrel). As Gary D said photos would be a big help (well, at least for me)

[LithgowHT]

I couldn’t find any reference to an HV marked Lithgow other than the “High Velocity” mark behind the back sight. Just the HT. Still have a look for an “H” on the barrel knox form (the flat area just in front of the receiver ring on the top of the barrel). As Gary D said photos would be a big help (well, at least for me)

Yup the H.V does stand for high velocity, this was when the ammunition was upgraded to MK VII Ball, this happened early 40s and also meant the flip sight ramp was machined down slightly making the sights conform to the more flat shooting MK VII rounds.
Flip sight removed this is most likely a target rifle, the barrel could have been installed by an armourer or by lithgow itself, lithgow usually left stampings on the barrel.
Now if the rifle was converted in the 30s and used in WW2 as a marksmans rifle, the flip sight would have been re-installed, also the peep sights removed and a H stamped on the but piece behind the cocking mechanism.
Also check if the action body serial is also stamped on the barrel, this is not always the case but proves lithgow modification.
Heavy barrel rifles are good shooters, the rifling is quite different to the standard barrels and bears resemblance to the metfords.
Phew! too much typing, good shooting!

[Jollygreenslugg]

The MkVII round was introduced in 1910 firing a 160 grain spitzer projectile, but was quickly upgraded to a 147 grain pill which remained the norm. Early SMLEs often show signs of being upgraded from MKVI to MKVII standards as you mention, but the rifle in question was produced in 1942 so it was well after the changeover.

During WW1, the MkVI round was still manufactured in some places; I have some 1917 Aussie MkVI.

Every WW2 Lithgow rifle I've encountered has the HV stamping on the butt. Not sure why, three decades on. The HV SC near the rearsight is common too.

The marksman rifles of which you speak are an interesting breed. They were introduced from the early 30s, with a heavy barrel being factory fitted. They also used an aperture sight, and one can usually tell such a rifle by the small cutaway or area of crushed wood on the left hand side where the aperture mount sat. As you mention, a capital H was stamped into the top of the buttstock just behind the buttsocket.

I don't know how many such rifles were converted, but many of them were used as the basis for HT rifles from 1944 onwards. I'm guessing there aren't too many around today.

I have one, a 1915 Lithgow, with all the features mentioned above. Nice rifle, that.

Cheers,
Matt

[smash1911]

I will try and post up a picture when i get home at the end of the week (damn working away from home on a mine )
It still has the front sight. Everything on the rifle looks original, the number stamped on the stock corresponds with the number stamped on the receiver.
It just seems funny that it doesnt have the rear sight (volley sight?) that every other .303 i have seen has.
Another thing i forgot to mention is that on the stock, and on top of the reciever there is a stamp that looks like this

\|/
S
/|\

I dont know if that means anything significant??

[No4Mk1(T)]

Another thing i forgot to mention is that on the stock, and on top of the reciever there is a stamp that looks like this

\|/
S
/|\

Sold out of service marking applied to arms released for sale to the public.

[smash1911]

So there is a chance this rifle was never actually fired in anger, and was probably in the armoury and sold off when it was no longer needed??

I'd still love to know why it hasnt got the normal rear sight, the peep sight detracts from the military look of the rifle.

[No4Mk1(T)]

So there is a chance this rifle was never actually fired in anger, and was probably in the armoury and sold off when it was no longer needed??

I don’t think there is any way of knowing with the available information. The mark was at one time applied to all arms found surplus to needs to indicate the cancellation of government ownership. Basically to indicate the arm was sold out of service rather than stolen. As with Gary D’s question does it have a one piece upper handguard? Is the original back sight bed still in place?
Does yours look like this one in the Australia section of the MKL?
Military Surplus Collectors Forums

[smash1911]

I'm not sure if it has a one piece upper, i think it has because the timber is the same the whole length on top of the barrell.
I cant see any pics in that thread you posted, my internet at work is blocked from picture storage websites
I have a few pics on my computer at home so i will try and post them up tonight.