That's fantastic int on the Gallipoli scope use, Nigel! (and damn, just when I thought I was keeping my bucket list achievable...diagram on the Maxim silencer below - looks fascinating. Definitely going to be keeping an eye out for any new forum posts on that one...
Hi Daan, it was lit just as they got the last troops off. All of the stores an army needs that could not be quietly evacuated over the preceding days was burnt on a big bonfire on the beach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daan Kemp
Attachment 108761
Nige, I've got a period Maxim silencer.........or should I call it a sound moderator? Feel a project coming on?! It would certainly be interesting.
Roger - I thought you had one. I'll dig out Harry's notes and literature on the Maxim silencer.
On the subject of barrel harmonics and the importance of sight graduations matching the ammunition. Has anyone shot MkVII ammo in a rifle graduated for Mk VI ? I remember using a .303 Martini Enfield Artillery Carbine in a 200 yard rapid fire competition - it was sighted for MkVI ammo. The target was about 44" tall, square head and shoulders with a 12" square on the chest counting as the bull. I found that with MkVII ammo I was aiming below the feet in order to hit the chest. I switched to some old Kynoch 215 grain hunting ammo (very much like MkVI) and it changed to point of aim point of impact. That is pretty much a difference of 3 feet at 200 yards - illustrating to me why it was so important to have the right ammo for rifles calibrated for MkVI - be they iron or telescopic sights.
Weather permitting, I'll be giving test next Sunday - got a session lane booked at Bisley. I've hopefully got close to factory-equivalent loads behind some BES 215 gr bullets on the left (going for circa 2040 fps for a MVI equivalent) and BES 174 gr MKVII-clone rounds (flat base, not boat tail) (circa 2240 fps). The SMLE is sighted for the mkVII at 100yds (1916 MKIII*, barrel in very good nick, a set of Roger's Whitehead Bros mounts with an MVA Winchester B4 repro.) Based on a (surprisingly good!) BC of .385 for the MkVI from some old tables, and a BC of .468 for the MKVII (from one of the other discussions on this forum, and putting the figures through a ballistics calculator, I'm expecting a circa 15 inch/5MOA difference between MkVI and MkVII at 300yrds. Will let you know how it goes.
Niiiiiice rifle!!!
Interesting to finally see a firmer account of the Maxim silencers, given the "whispering death" references found here and there in the literature - which ostensibly referred to their use in France.
Am not aware of any primary source reference to their use in France however, but if they were in use at Gallipoli in 1915, there would have been no reason not to also used them in France, particularly after with withdrawal and the good reports(?) of their use there.
Presumably the "bayonet mount" type rather than the interrupted thread as modifying rifles was a minor heresy at the time. :rolleyes:
(There would been nowhere to attach to an SMLE obviously)
I wonder if any Maxim sales records exist; though such purchases might well have been "off the books", if only to keep Maxim's German-American workers from sabotage etc.
Thanks lmg15
Quite expensive flames those. Less expensive than lives though.Quote:
Originally Posted by lmg15
Research, Preserving Gallipoli battlefield artefacts and features, University of Melbourne
Some interesting descriptions (with illustrations of some) artifacts found on the Anzac landing area on the Gallipoli peninsula. All part of a very large conflict archaeological project involving the University of Melbourne, The Australian & New Zealand governments, & the Turkish government. I came across it the other night. As would be expected there are numerous ammunition finds, & from the look I had through the finds, with one exception, every illustrated artifact that consists of a 303 round or part thereof, is MkVI. Some cartridge case head stamps are legible & there are two or three which are CAC 13 & 14. There are numerous bullets which are clearly round nosed, as well as a few complete MkVI live rounds. The one exception is a mass of seven rounds clumped together in a concretion. These are clearly MkVII's, but are the only example that I could see on the whole site, & which seem quite out of place.
The finds certainly confirm the belief that Anzac forces were using MkVI ammo on the peninsula (& therefore presumably scopes graduated for MkVI external ballistics). I checked a few other sites as well, but found several photo's over these sites which unfortunately (depending on your viewpoint) showed MkVII ammo or bullets recovered from the vicinity of the 'UK' landing beaches. I must say, being a keen battlefield walker (though usually in France) I periodically visit such web sites & had a gnawing feeling that I'd seen photo's of MkVII on Gallipoli, but really couldn't be certain. I think there's no doubt that Anzac forces were using MkVI (Lmg15's evidence is pretty convincing to me) but there may have been a split down national (or at least Dominion as opposed to Imperial) lines, with UK forces using certainly in part MkVII ball.
Thinking about it, many UK units were 1st or 2nd Battalions (of whichever regiments), indicating they were regulars, who would presumably be near the front of the queue for the latest kit?? Only thinking out aloud here, but would that make sense?
Your picture does NOT show a Maxim silencer. This is also obvious by the name on top of the patent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surpmil
Attached pictures of my two Maxim silencers (one cutaway), both on M.1903 rifles.
If it is of any help, Austria also trialled silencers on the M.95 straight pull rifle in 1915.