Force matched - me no understand

Parts gun...

Renumbered post service........amateur renumbered.

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Originally Posted by Bindi2

I have one but it is very very tired, it is an old lady with all its history still in place. I got it because it looked old dirty and worn and every one just walked past it without looking to see what it was. .

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Any chance of seeing photos of it??

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Originally Posted by SpikeDD

In regard to Enfiels, as I haven't followed Mosin's close enough to have heard the phrase, The term " Forced Matched " was a term I understood to have nothing to do with FTR's...nothing to do with properly fitted parts by Armorers...nothing to do with field repairs..etc...etc. It also has nothing to do with "physically" forcing a part to fit a rifle. It was the back yard, non-gunsmith ****** that simply ground one set of numbers off and used whatever was at hand to apply another set of numbers that matched to receiver...poorly done in almost every case in the pure interest of claiming the rifle has "matching" numbers. "Forced" meaning NOT done by a proper Armorer at a military facility. At least that is my understanding of it from dozens of pictures over the years of bolts, nose caps and rear sights where the term " Forced Matched " was used.

If it means something else, it would put every FTR...FTR 1/2...FTR 1/3 rifle on the **** list and I can tell you from my personal sales experience of 1/2 and 1/3 rifles, the term " Forced matched " is not derogatorily associated with them in the least.

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Backyard gunsmiths changing numbers is humping.

Force Matching is what the Russians did with 91/30, SVT, and other Refurbs. Matching part was lost or no good so they electro penciled a different part and put it on.

The Russians did the same with RC Mausers. They stripped them down. Refinished them. Then to complete the destruction of a beautiful K98k they grabbed the closest bolt or other part and re-numbered it usually with electro pencil rather than looking for the correct matching one.

The Finns since they took crap Russian Mosins and made them shootable did an in between which we call Finn Matching. Russian Numbers were removed and new Finn numbers were added to the Russian parts that were reused.

My dealings with U.K. dealers when purchasing U.K. deactivated guns make me think that we need the term "Forced Matched" or an alternative phase. I think this because we need to differentiate between a "matching numbers" gun where all the serial numbered parts match the master serial number, where this has been the case from when then gun left the factory, and a gun where the numbers on parts have been changed to match the master number. This is because dealers often charge a premium for a "matching numbers" gun and will often try to pass a gun off as matching even if the numbers have been changed to match. Taking away the term "forced matched" could mean that a "matching numbers" gun could be made out of any odd assortment of parts simply by grinding off numbers, applying new numbers, attach a hefty premium and rip off some poor unsuspecting collector, more easily than at present.

Ah....... in those sorts of examples we're not comparing like with like. That's not force matching or anything......... That's fraud!

A matching numbers gun is exactly what they all were when they left the Armourers shop. But while we matched hundreds of things we didn't force anything. It was done properly. The closest a real Armourer got to such a notion was the term '.....gently swage the head to a rounded form.......' when fitting L1 bayonet grips.

I dunno, I used to force another beer on the odd occasion, 'specially if someone called "last drinks"

Yes it's all about numbers, nothing really to do with gun smithing. Personally I've never paid a premium for a deac just because the dealer has said it's "fully matching" numbers and I haven't listened to any of the B.S. they've told me either. If the deac turns up and it's fully matching numbers it's a bonus but if it's not I'm not overly bothered because I haven't paid over the odds for it.

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Originally Posted by Homer

Renumbered post service........amateur renumbered.

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Exactly what I think when I hear the term "force matched".

Usually also results in me walking away.

Yes, I have to say that the term ''Force matched'' really ****es me off!!!. To me every Bolt action rifle has had its Bolt 'Force matched',because the 2 parts were made separately,and someone had to fit them.!
Regards Stuart.
PS Keep up the good work making stocks...