Why there aren't Japanese rifles among "favorite WWII rifles"?

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

A thumbs up fron Italy! I just added a Carcano to my to do list.
Thanks!

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Which, in actual fact, can be extremely precise when fed the right ammo. However, they are very quirky rifles...

Re. the Japanese rifles, I'm thinking that eventually they'll become a collector's delight, given the multitude of manufacturers and small variations. And they're less apt to have gone through rebuild(s), thus making it more likely to find "as manufactured" examples- IF one can get past the defaced "mum" and/or mismatched bolts.

I've got a couple of T99's that have never had the action out of the stock, as the screws are still staked in place! (I think both have mums, but mismatched bolts, or versy-vicey!)

"Perfect" examples are pretty scarce, and will probably be priced accordingly- maybe sooner than later.

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

A thumbs up fron Italy! I just added a Carcano to my to do list.
Thanks!

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:thup: :thup: ...what else...? ;)

My advice to all: get yourself an Arisaka, a Carcano, and a Schmidt-Rubin NOW.

OK, so what do I know?

If you think: nothing much - then ignore this advice, print out this post, stick it in a draw, take it out in 5 years time, and then kick yourself.

As I mentioned somewhere else on these forums, for each of my rifles I have a folder with purchase/registration details, chambering standards, loading information, test targets - and prices actually achieved in recent auctions for examples in a comparable condition. And from this I can see that over 2 years the prices have doubled-trebled for comparable Arisakas, nearly doubled for Carcanos, and are just beginning to show a noticeable rise for Schmidt-Rubins.

I keep these folders up-to-date for the benefit of whoever inherits my rifles. Like many others, having looked through truckloads of wall-hanger quality to find a good-shooting example of a type in original configuration, I am not going to part with it as long as I can still shoot. This attitude, multiplied by the number of serious shooters and collectors around the world, means that if you want to get a 1st class shooting example of "the big 5", you will find that as a collector, you have to be rich - and as a competition shooter, you have to be rich and wait for someone to give up shooting.

So, slowly but increasingly, those looking for the nearly impossible, such as a match-grade 1903-A3, are beginning to look at the possible - hitherto neglected rifles in a moderate price range, usually in original configuration, not frequently falsified with fake markings (because it doesn't pay) and, in short, still very good value for the money.

Like I say, look again in 5 years, and see if I'm right! But please don't then start writing moaning posts on the lines of "I can remember seeing Arisakas/ Carcanos/ Schmidt-Rubins for a 100 or so, and wish I'd bought one". Rather look in your gun cabinet and be pleased that you did!

Patrick
:wave:

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

My advice to all: get yourself an Arisaka, a Carcano, and a Schmidt-Rubin NOW.

OK, so what do I know?

If you think: nothing much - then ignore this advice, print out this post, stick it in a draw, take it out in 5 years time, and then kick yourself.

As I mentioned somewhere else on these forums, for each of my rifles I have a folder with purchase/registration details, chambering standards, loading information, test targets - and prices actually achieved in recent auctions for examples in a comparable condition. And from this I can see that over 2 years the prices have doubled-trebled for comparable Arisakas, nearly doubled for Carcanos, and are just beginning to show a noticeable rise for Schmidt-Rubins.

I keep these folders up-to-date for the benefit of whoever inherits my rifles. Like many others, having looked through truckloads of wall-hanger quality to find a good-shooting example of a type in original configuration, I am not going to part with it as long as I can still shoot. This attitude, multiplied by the number of serious shooters and collectors around the world, means that if you want to get a 1st class shooting example of "the big 5", you will find that as a collector, you have to be rich - and as a competition shooter, you have to be rich and wait for someone to give up shooting.

So, slowly but increasingly, those looking for the nearly impossible, such as a match-grade 1903-A3, are beginning to look at the possible - hitherto neglected rifles in a moderate price range, usually in original configuration, not frequently falsified with fake markings (because it doesn't pay) and, in short, still very good value for the money.

Like I say, look again in 5 years, and see if I'm right! But please don't then start writing moaning posts on the lines of "I can remember seeing Arisakas/ Carcanos/ Schmidt-Rubins for a 100 or so, and wish I'd bought one". Rather look in your gun cabinet and be pleased that you did!

Patrick

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Had a Finn M91 stumbled across Arisaka ,M44 Nagant . 1918 SMLE no1 MK 3 in a four for one sale.Thanks to Blackcat I now have to find a Carcano. Plan to get a CMP Garand soon. Dont know much about a Schmit-Rubin (will research) a Mauser would be nice. I have little interest in appreciation in value as anything I obtain will be passed on with all the history I can collect to my nephews in the hopes they will appreciate them and the history they represent. My new way of rationalizing a purchase, does not look like our money is going to be worth much soon due to inflation, buy old guns!

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

anything I obtain will be passed on with all the history I can collect to my nephews in the hopes they will appreciate them

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Which is a good reason to have those folders. So they can appreciate the stuff - or at least sell it for a fair price!

:wave:

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

Had a Finn M91 stumbled across Arisaka ,M44 Nagant . 1918 SMLE no1 MK 3 in a four for one sale.Thanks to Blackcat I now have to find a Carcano. Plan to get a CMP Garand soon. Dont know much about a Schmit-Rubin (will research) a Mauser would be nice. I have little interest in appreciation in value as anything I obtain will be passed on with all the history I can collect to my nephews in the hopes they will appreciate them and the history they represent. My new way of rationalizing a purchase, does not look like our money is going to be worth much soon due to inflation, buy old guns!

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...always I'm guilty... :lol: :lol: :lol: Anyway it's a good choise! ;)

What a good matter to have a collection! :thup:

---------- Post added at 07:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:23 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

Which is a good reason to have those folders. So they can appreciate the stuff - or at least sell it for a fair price!

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Ooooh yessss! ...for love or for business. I wish they'll choose the first one ;)

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Originally Posted by blackcat_attilio

Ooooh yessss! ...for love or for business. I wish they'll choose the first one

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It is my mission to instill as much apprecianion for history in each of them as I can in hopes that my collection will stay in the family. My most treasured possetions are the few items photos,discharge papers,gear etc..from WW1 and WW2 that belonged to my grandfathers and father. They remind me of their determination along with others of that era to pass on to me a safer/ better world than the one which they inhabited. I only wish more people felt this way and perhaps we would not be in the mess we find ourselves in now. Here we have someone in Germany,Italy and USA discussing a shared intrest. Reminds me of a segment from Band of Brothers were one of the 101st vets was interviewed and spoke of how in other circumstances he and the Germans he was fighting agains might have a shared intrest in hunting or fishing an be good friends. Very touching. Very true.

I picked up an Arisaka T-99 [short] back in 2006. I collect mil-surps and study WWII. To me, they arn't just firearms but artifacts of WWII history. Many mil-surp rifles are rather inexpensive to collect. I was quite lucky I thought in acquiring this T-99 battle rifle. Nagoya, series 4, Ack Ack sights, Mono, Numbers matching, perfect mum, excellent blue, almost perfect stock. It shoots straight at 100 yds. Paid $365.00 with 110 rounds + dies. I truly love this hobby for many reasons. It is a collector item from the Japanese Army used in WWII from 1939 until their defeat in 1945. Mine still has a perfect Mum, so I guess it still belongs to the Japanese Emperor, sorry bout' that, I intend to keep it!!!

[]Mine still has a perfect Mum, so I guess it still belongs to the Japanese Emperor, sorry bout' that, I intend to keep it!!![/quote]
He is not going to get mine either. It amazes me to hold my type 38 with the bayonet attached imagine a 5' 110 lb Japanese soldier toting the load. I think folks were tougher then.

IMHO, the main reason Japanese rifles don't have the charisma other milsurps have is because of the bad press they received, during and after WWII. I've seen hundreds of them piled on tables in poor to very good condition. The price on them was all the same, $5. We did all sorts of nasty things to them in our experiments. Almost all of them, had the crests ground off the receivers in haphazard manners. This made them "not pretty." They also weren't so marvelously smooth to operate, like European and North American bolt actions. Carcano, Lebels, etc, mostly suffered the same problems.
I don't thing anyone cared one way or another if the country or origin was on the losing side or not. Another example of fine rifles that didn't get any respect, until recently, were the various Mosin Nagants. Lets face it, they are finished in the rough for the most part, the bolts are complicated and they just aint pretty. With the arrival of millions of them and boat loads of ammunition to go into them, they are starting to gain a following. That happened once before with Mosins. The ammunition ran out and the rifles became almost worthless.

Japanese milsurp ammo has always been scarce. There were the very odd lots but that was it. That's one of the reasons Mauser 98s were converted to sporters. Ammunition became scarce and people started to tinker with them. It started a a boom, that led to all sorts of cottage industries.

Japanese rifles just couldn't overcome the bad rep the "media experts" gave it. That along with its rough action didn't help matters. PO Ackley, tried to dispell the "media myths" to no avail. Funny thing is, polish the rails, ways, lug recesses, bolt lugs etc and the action smooths right up. It is also very precise and well fitted. The finishes, especiall on some T38s, rivals factory sporters of the time. During the war years, Japan allowed their factories to cut corners, just like the axis powers and other war torn nations did. This was quite understandable. Like the rifles of every other nation, they may have been lacking lustre but they were just fine where it really counted.

Those ground receiver rings really do put a lot of people off, including me. I just don't like them. Another rifle that doesn't get a lot of respect, are the Siamese Mausers. The finishes on those are very nice. Just can't find any ammunition. It was only recently that brass and bullets became available.