i mean actual information vice rumors, stuff can not be dried up forever
i am getting serious low on varget and h 4895
down to about a lb each
Printable View
i mean actual information vice rumors, stuff can not be dried up forever
i am getting serious low on varget and h 4895
down to about a lb each
It's simply supply and demand. I took to task and bought continually for over 2 years. One never has enough in this climate of political ups and downs.
As soon as Widener's had Wolf Primers last week, I bought another 30,000. I didn't need them, but it's better to have too many than not at all.
Powder Valley was out of H4350, so I read about Accurate 4350 and found that as a suitable substitute, so I bought 4 8 lb. jugs. Powder Valley has enough Accurate, so I might buy more next month.
It's not hoarding, it's survival!
Anyone can do it, just spend the money!
The local Cabelas has had mostly empty shelves until recently. Now they have in stock most of the common variety.
I suspect there is no real shortage, just takes a little time to catch up to the re-supply after the latest round of panic buying.
wideners is selling 4895 from the Brits, and it shoots very well indeed.
Matt Antony " bought ANOTHER. 30,000 primers which he didn't need".
Now we know why supplies are short
Powder is flowing around here a little, primers are just trickling in.
Yep, and you can be part of capitalism and freedom also, buy whatever you want, there is no law against it! Today and yesterday, as you have witnessed, people are scared of what is to come, and buying for the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by dogtag
I applaud people who exercise their constitutional rights.
"Constitutional right" to hoard?? Say what? 30,000 primers will last me 30 years? How long will it last you.
Well, there is no law against it, so all other rights are reserved to the people and the states. :)
Calif-Steve, some people shoot more than you do. Some shoot a lot more. Others shoot way, way, way more. I hope that's okay.
Since when is buying a product for your own purpose, whether now or in the future, all of a sudden deemed to be hoarding? What country are you living in? This is the USA!Quote:
Originally Posted by Calif-Steve
As we don't want the government in our bedrooms, we certainly don't want them or anyone else to dictate what we can buy and what we can't. And that Cali-Steve means you too!
When I order from Powder Valley or Widener's, there is no limit on the quantity you can buy, if you could buy their entire shipment, they would sell them to you, profit is not a dirty word.
Enough of this stupidity, I'm not hoarding, I just have more than the next guy and that's not a crime. If you want to buy some primers, contact Widener's, they will be glad to sell you some.
And yes, the constitution guarantee's our GOD given rights, and the second amendment means freedom to protect oneself, one’s family, and one’s property from the depredations of others. I take that statement that I can buy as many primers, buy as much powder, bullets, cases and firearms that I feel is neccessary to protect my family.
Your original post stated that you had just bought another 30,000 primers which you didn't need.
That means you have in excess of 60,000 primers
If that isn't hoarding, I'd like to know what is.
I gotta go with dogtag here and remind you of your original post. You bought 30,000 primers that you didn't need. Your hoarding is perfectly legal, though I would like to point out to you that you are boasting about it to the very people that the current round of hoarding is hurting.
I don't know how long primers keep, but I know that most of the primers sold today will be good long after the original buyer has "joined the quior invisible".
Because they keep so well if kept cool and dry, buying more than one could use in a single lifetime still makes sence if you can afford to do it. Like having a time machine to go back to buy hight test gasoline. If it would keep for a generation, you would buy 500,000 galons of it and bury it somewhere safe. You would then get in the time machine and come back to the present day burning up gas so good you can't even buy it anymore. Many people think that at some point reloading components will go the way of high test gasoline,
low cost factory muscle cars, and the freedom to own a M-14 or Thompson SMG. These people are willing to pay the price today because they believe that they could become priceless and completely unavailible in the future.
If you bought a Hemi Road Runner in 1969, and paid double the sticker price or more, you still made a great deal if you still owned the car today. If you died, and your son owns the car, it is probably worth more than his home.
The people have a unique perspective that looks into the future by knowing the past. They are willing to pay double the price for something today that will be priceless long after they are gone. If you are not willing to pay for it, stop complaining and wait like the rest of us to buy when the glut of stuff occurs.
If it never does, who was the wiser ?
Everyone has had the opportunity to purchase quanities of whatever they choose! There are many out there who refused to listen to others and didn't realize that components could become harder to obtain. I remember when the warnings were posted on the old CSP forum. There were many who pooh-poohed that there would be a primer/powder shortage.Quote:
Originally Posted by dogtag
Call me whatever you like, it doesn't matter, I've got enough primers and powder, only because I listened to the market and saw what was happening. You can purchase primers right now, and as many as you want, but if you had bought them last year, you would of saved 25% or more.
That's not hoarding, that's just being smart!
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!
I called my local supplier and ordered bullets; 1000 of this, 1000 of that and 500 of something else along with primers. He said he may not be able to supply the primers in that quanity. I told hime if I can't get the primers, I don't need the bullets. He told me he's working on it. We'll see.
I can't believe the number of posts on various sites, castigating people for buying this or that, in "X" quantities. This is a matter ONLY between the buyer and seller, and if they are both happy, then it is of no concern to anyone else.
Don
I am a conservative. I believe that freedom is always the best answer. The democrats and liberals know that it is the nature of Americans today to whine and point fingers at anyone but themselves for a particular situation.
All you need is a crisis, real or manufactured and the cries for some sort of control, oversight, rationing, and regulation that decreases freedom appear. Freedom and control are opposites. By advocating more control or restraint in ones freedom to buy what and how mach of anything, you are a liberal and no different than the current administraition that seeks the same in all aspects of the economy.
Just an FYI, homeowners insurance and local Fire Marshall's usually have rules about how much powder and primers you can have in your home without a license from the Fire Marshal or a rider on your insurance. If you exceed that amount you may be voiding your homeowners insurance.
Remember the pulldown period of '03 and '04? 4K M1 and 3K M2 bullets, 8 jugs of CMR-100 powder, 2 jugs of 4895, 8 jugs of 2230C, 2K of '06 match brass, 1K of .308 match brass, 5C of 852 brass, 2K of LC72 brass, PU 10K of #34 primers @15/1K about 18 months ago. Is that "smart shopping" or "hoarding"? When the primer thing gets better, some SR primers are in the offing though.
OFC
At my consumption, 30K of primers is at best a 18 month supply so to me , thats not a lot of primers. If I could buy that far in advance and afford it at one time without taking out a loan, I would do it.
I got no problem with a man buying what he needs and obviously, he can afford to do that.
I guess I am hoarding cause I got a lot of guns, should have just bought only a few so others would have a choise and better menu to purchase guns on the market?
I got too many guns, not enough primers and certainly not enough powder.
At age 62, I got little time to want something and not have it: primers are one of those things I will buy lots of when I see them in reach.
i am a smart buyer, not a hoarder, but I am now using small and large match federal primers I Hoarded(bought) the last time the stuff was short on supply,remember around the early nineties? so, I would and will put alot moe powder away for future use , and I sill have enough primer material in storage that I won't need to stock up on primers for another year or two. Just buying for the rainy day, which has come again, hasn't it?
Guys! Hoarding drives up the prices for no good reason. Buying what you don't need hurts all of us. I am used to paying $24.95 for 1k of primers. They now sell for $40.00-80.00. ONLY because of hoarding. Please yourself, for sure, but don't expect a Bronze Star from me!
Through Widener's, six cases of Wolf primers, Hazmat and shipping just last week, cost me $916.65. Cost per 1000 is $30.56. A year ago from Wideners I paid $691.50 for the same order. Everyone I know is buying components, and it's not about hoarders, it's about OBAMA and his band of thieves. Check out HR-45 and how they are trying to put that on the back of an IRS bill. When you start reading what they want, you'd change your tune on others buying what they believe they need to protect themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calif-Steve
Also, I can't see your logic in your attack against those that buy for their own stock! No one is stopping you from buying whatever you want, why are you judging others as if they are doing something wrong?
Lets hope this buying panic convinces us to vote early, vote often. We do have a voice, use it.
The late Richard J. Daley, former Mayor of Chicago always said to the city before an election, "To Vote and Vote Often!" Anyway, I think people voted on promises that will never happen when they voted for the communist we now have residing at our White House.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calif-Steve
Next time it would be better to vote on a candidates accomplishments instead of his lies spewing out of his face hole. Hope we can believe in, look at the mess he has put us under!!!!!!!!!! Let's hope we can survive at the present rate of spending!
:beerchug:
Matt:
I'm not attacking your decision to buy how many primers you want or why, but by your own admission you bought 30,000 primers you didn't need. The hoarding by you and others is hurting us- the other members of this board (shooters and reloaders). The logic there is that you (and others) are causing us to pay alot more for primers etc if we can find them. Why then would we be happy for you? Or as Calif-Steve put it, why would we give you a Bronze Star for your conduct?
Are you looking??? Why is it that others find them also! Get on line everyday and check out the sites!Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeybuff
Yes, I don't need them right now, but seeing how the prices are escalating, everyone should buy more than they need to save money in the future. I'll continue to buy, whenever they are available, regardless of what others say.
Remember, you can do what others and myself included have done, when Widener's or powdervalley or any other outlet show they have stock, buy them if you so choose, if you don't want to buy any, then don't! Just don't condemn others for seeing what the future is showing, higher manufacturers costs, shipping increases and profit for the companies that sell products.
I don't understand the bronze star comment, I never asked for that, but I am not going to be left short on components, and there are thousands that feel the same way.
The word came out before the election, almost a year from when Obama was sworn in, for everyone to consider stocking up. Why didn't every one take heed of the warnings? I remember others saying it wasn't going to happen and the ones that were warning others were idiots! Hmmmmmm!
AGAIN!! Vote early, vote often.
Like the $4.00 per gallon gasoline prices, when the price was too much for the drivers, they stopped driving so often and the demand for gas was less, so was the price of gas. The OPECKERS got the message and lowered the crude oil prices. The LAW OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND is applicable to any commodity, even small rifle primers! Don't be so demanding (hoarding)! This is not rocket science, people. We, the consumer, can control pricing, if we act strategically.
You are forgetting that it's 2009 and not 1990 or anyother date. Prices of components to manufacture primers have increased 3 fold. Brass has skyrocketed as has the manufacture costs to produce the primer compound. Wolf raised their prices 25%, not due to demand, but due to their cost to produce the item.Quote:
Originally Posted by tmark
If people are waiting for primers and powder to drop to pre 2009 prices, don't hold your breath, that's not going to happen. And as far as hoarders selling at inflated prices, that's their business. If one needs them and wants to pay $40. to $50. per thousand, then do it, but stop crying in your beer!
As far as the consumer controlling prices, that does happen with many products and fuel to an extent. There still are costs involved with crude! We just saw how the speculators boosted the price to $145.00 per barrel, yes, price fixing, and nothing was done about it! That had nothing to do with demand!
As long as metal is high, bullets will be high, but I doubt any of the bullet companies lower their prices in the future if metal goes down, if anything they will maintain the present price and leave it at that.
Did you check Widener's, Sinclair, PowderValley, Bruno's, Midsouth, Natchez and Champion yet for primers? Oh, if you want to order primers, you can backorder them through Sinclair and Powdervalley. As they receive them, orders will be filled by the date of the back order. First come, first serve basis.
:beerchug:
I will and do buy when and all I need/want to store and use, and I will continue to do that , regardless of the price. I like to reload and shoot and I will continue to do so: this is my therapy, and it is still cheaper that govt run psycho counseling, isn't it??
You my friend are a "True American!"Quote:
Originally Posted by duggaboy
Comrade Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by Calif-Steve
Primers are only being sold at that price because of supply and demand. There was a great demand because alot of uninformed people (and I'm sure some gun owners) voted for the current anti-gun president. As companies sold out of their stocks and manufacturing wasn't able to keep up with demand, people who had the items put some up for sale. I know I have been selling some of my ammo that I refuse to shoot because of the price to replace it. I now shoot my reloads.
If someone needed your primers really bad and offered you 20 times what you paid for them, would you sell? Are you now gougeing them? Did you hord primers/ammo? I'll bet you are not out of ammo so I guess you are hording ammo by not allowing others to buy what you have.
You fail to take into account that the dollar is losing value, hence, prices go higher. It is also my understanding that bullet/primer companies, lock in prices on commodities for periods of time. If they locked in when the price of the metal was high, then well, the consumer is going to pay the price, if they want the goods.
If you think that everyone should just stop shooting/buying components, so the price will go down so you can buy them, you are not living in reality. I guess you were big into the no buying gas days also huh?
If you want prices to go down, buy less of the things you think are too high priced. I normally buy several thousand primers in a order because it is cheaper to do so, and I'll know I have enough to get me though in times like these.
Supply is catching up to demand and the price of primers hasn't risen that much. There was just reciently, a bunch of wolf primers in stock for several days. At some point, in the near future, the people who have been "hording" all these components will have their fill and stop buying components. Then there will be all you need out there. Maybe when that happens, you might want to stock up when things cost less and are available.
I have no ill will towards anyone who buys enough of what they need when it is available. I don't blame anyone for buying an item for the express purpose of turning a profit (CMP items are the only exception but that is a whole other issue). I refuse to pay 40-80 dollars for primers and will wait until prices come down. I stocked up on enough reloading components when they were cheap to last me for the forseeable future.
For anyone out there who is pointing fingers about hording, what is the acceptable level of buying? 100 primers? 100 rds of ammo? What?
Do you have any problems with people buying 30000 primers if primers were 20/1000 and in stock everywhere? If your answer to this question is you don't have a problem when supplies are plentiful and cheap, then I fail to see your logic when supplies are in short supply. If your answer is it was still hording, explain why you weren't complaining 2 years ago?
If you take anything from this experience, remember, "buy it cheap and stack it deep."
Thank you colt100. I quit posting in this forum some time back because I got tired of the BS and having to defend myself from Red and others that believe that buying enough is "to much" and therefor hoarding and anyone that does that is evil in some way. It aint worth the grief.
Reloading components "have been" and "are" on the shelf more and more in my area, there is almost nothing that I cant go to one of the sporting goods stores and buy if I want it. Components and guns never went totaly away even at the worst of the rush. I have seen posters here in this forum complaining about "black guns" not being avalable, again I have to say thats a pile of road apples. I can go out today and look at no less than 100 of them on the shelf waiting for buyers and yes the DPMS .308's to, what do you want? it's out there to get if you are willing to part with the money for it. By the way one of the .308 cal. DPMS guns for sale is "new" for less than 1,100 at my local dealer and has been for a month, no takers and I know for a fact that's a good price anytime or anyplace.
colt100 and others like us know this will end someday and when the real hoarders have to let go of their stash at 1/2 price that's when it will be time to buy. Until then the whiners will continue to whine and the rest of us will continue to buy what we need when we have the chance and not feel bad about exercising or rights to do so.
Hang in there colt and the others like us, keep doing what your doing and let the other contine to do what they do, after all.....it's their right to whine.
"Flame away whiners".
BudT
I see this attitude more and more in america and I sure don't like it one bit. People complain when they don't have something blaming others for the problem, when it's their own fault they are in the situation they are in. I'm saying that this is a general theme in america but it does apply to some of the people who are complaining on this board.
There was an e-mail going around about a year ago that summed up what I'm talking about. I didn't save it but it was basically about 2 squirrels who were storing nuts for the winter. The first squirrel stored the nuts and told the other to do so when the nuts were everywhere. The second kept saying that he had plenty of time and sat back and relaxed. Soon winter came and the 2nd squarrel ran out of nuts 1/2 way through the winter.
The 2nd squarrel then went and complained to the government. The woodland news showed the 2nd squarrel starving in the cold and the 1st squarrel sitting in his home eating nuts. Public outrage followed and the gov came in and took 1/2 of the 1st squarrel's nuts to give to the poor starving 2nd squarrel.
The e-mail continued and this was supposed to be a spin on the welfare system but I can see similarites to the reloading hobbyists as well.
I sometimes don't have the money to stock up on components myself in the quanties that I would like but I sure don't whine when others do so. I buy what I can when I can and If I don't have enough ammo for a gun, I shoot another until I can reload or procure more ammo. Or I just don't go shooting or shoot a lot less then I normally would.
I also get frustrated with this and the old board. Same thing goes with AR15 and some of the other boards. I have what I need in the end because I planned ahead. If someone else didn't, it's their own fault.
I am just getting into the 6.8 spc game and have to start from scratch with brass/bullets/ammo and the components were quite cheaper a year ago, sometime 1/2 price what they are now. You don't see me out there whining about it. I look for deals and buy when the price is right. I pass on "deals" all the time because people want too much money. I'll eventually aquire what I need and get a nice stockpile of ammo/components stocked up for the next zombie attacks, if they come.
Regarding the cries of "Hoarding". It's a sign that liberals are joining the ranks of gun owners.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by colt100
Don
I guess I'm one of the whiners so I'll respond to the latest posts here. My issue here isn't about redistribution of wealth (as the squirrel story hints at) or liberals in the gun culture ( which if you go to the political forum I think they would say started around 1968). This has nothing to do with that. My issue isn't with what/how much or what price Matt payed for his primers he didn't need. I agree with Colt100's assessment of supply and demand. I think that I will soon be able to get the primers and powder that I want as cheap, if not cheaper than before.
My only issue here has been with Matt's original post of buying 30,000 primers he didn't need. He, and others, contributed to a panic buying (or to use Matt's word-speculation) that forced up prices and ended availablity. He can do that if he wants and I don't have to pay increased prices. But I don't have to be happy for him or accept his "Well I got mine and #$% the rest of you." That's all- I thought it was "odd" that he would boast about that to the very people hurt by the hoarding.
I don't remember saying "I got mine and the #$% the rest of you!" The statement you made is a bald faced made up sentence, commonly referred to as a false statement and lie! Is your nose a---growing!!!! Here is my original post, copied from page one!Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeybuff
It's simply supply and demand. I took to task and bought continually for over 2 years. One never has enough in this climate of political ups and downs.
As soon as Widener's had Wolf Primers last week, I bought another 30,000. I didn't need them, but it's better to have too many than not at all.
Powder Valley was out of H4350, so I read about Accurate 4350 and found that as a suitable substitute, so I bought 4 8 lb. jugs. Powder Valley has enough Accurate, so I might buy more next month.
It's not hoarding, it's survival!
Anyone can do it, just spend the money!
Stop making false statements, now,no one will ever believe you again!
Matt:
I'm sorry if you thought I was quoting you. I wasn't using the quotation marks to quote you- I read your original post- but instead to quote the slang saying. I was using the saying to illustrate my reaction to your original post and how you appeared to come across to me. That's not lieing or making a false statement.
You can't weasel out of this by now twisting your intented message. You referred exactly to my original post using that as your basis for your objections. You indicated I was boasting, that is not true, how did you come up with that? Where in my original post was I boasting?Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeybuff
Now, just because you didn't buy primers and powder when they were plentiful, there is no call to condemn the people that did! We call people who do what you have displayed, cry babies.
And I did not cause primers to go up in price because I bought an extra 30,000 primers. That statement is absolutely rediculous and childlike. Just to let you and the other cry babies know, when primers are available, around the 29th of August, I plan on buying even more, and this time I'll spend $2,000.00 just to show you and others I do this "because I can!" And you can do it too!
One more point, the word lieing is spelled this way, lying, and you did make false statements, that's a fact Jack!
Hope you have a wonderful day,
Matt
Yo guys, this is getting tiresome. It's run its course.
Let's get back to exchanging loading info.
If you have some extra time, why not email your congressmen, senators, and let them know how you feel about our constitution, economy, and sovereignty being compromised and reformatted on the hurried whims of our new administration?
Not trying to be provocative; just a suggestion.
Karl
Karl:Quote:
Originally Posted by seabee73
This thread was important to stop the whining! Attacking others for buying primers and powders is ignorant and those that didn't heed to the warnings, well, they don't have any primers now. Who's fault is that????
If there is a problem with the thread, the administration will pop up and correct the problem if it goes too far. And if you are tired of the thread, I would suggest you refrain from reading the thread.
Take your own advise, you get involved with your congressmen and senators, I already do that! Also, President Obama has used the word "Yo" quite often in his speaches when talking to ethnic crowds, I find that word offensive! It's not in Websters and is considered slang, it's not a word at all in the English vocabulary. In Spanish it means "I".
Have a great weekend,
Matt
Matt:
Since you and I seem unwilling to let this go, I'll try and explain this to you yet again. This isn't about you buying what you want or feel you need- you can and are free to buy what you want at whatever price you want. This isn't about me not having any primers or whatever and so feel cheated. I bought the amount of primers etc I felt I needed well before this, during cheap and plentiful times, but, unlike you, I'm not boasting about it or causing problems for others who do need them now during a shortage caused by you and others hoarding them. The relatively few primers/powder I do need, I will wait until the panic is over and get them then- I can wait. In other words, I'm not @#$% anyone over buying 30,000 primers just to have them and then boasting about it to the very people being hurt by your actions.
I'm curious- since I continue to whine, Are you going to buy even more primers on August 29th?
Jack
To answer your question, I am not ever planning on buying anymore primers or powder. I would hope that stops the thread and satisfies your curiosity!
Also, I found a person who had purchased 30BR Remington brass back when those cases were manufactured. They have been discontinued for years. He didn't need them, but thought that a 308 case with a small primer was unusual. He thought that he would use it with his 308 bench gun. Well, he never used them but now needed primers. For 1000 each, large and small rifle magnum Wolf primers, I picked up 100 new 30BR cases for my CHeetah. These cases normally sell for $1.00 to $1.50 each, so I came out with a good deal. My cost was $30.50 per 1000 with haz and shipping. You can do the same, go online and check out the sites and when a company has product, buy some, it's really not very difficult.
Matt
And this from a person that lives in a state that continually gives us Feinstein,Boxer and Pelosie.:banghead::sos:Quote:
Originally Posted by Calif-Steve
For months I could find no bricks of Federal .22 LR. The few bricks of .22 of any name you could find was in the $30 range. For .22 LR ? Give me a break! When it became available I bought 6 bricks at $14 I quess I'm a horder. I never ran completely out of either primers or powder but it was close a few times. I even managed to hit the store one day when 2 8 lb jugs of IMR 4895 came in. I wish I had bought both. The one I got lasted about 3 months. I did think that $35 for a K .30 gas checks was a bit excessive. I did see primers at $50 a K but I passed on them at that price. Two weeks later I got a thousand from a local gunshop. I Wanted 2000 but he would only sell me 1. He had others on a list. But things here are starting to loosen up again.
The only thing I'm having problems locating are Remington 209 primers. I've been able to find all of the primers, powder, bullets, and shotgun wads that I want or need, except those Rem primers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calif-Steve
as long as they work and they do have a shelf life 30k ???
I ordered 2000 small pistol primers from Cabelas in APRIL and I'm still waiting. A phone call to them this morning, now it's the end of December!
RD
CCI primers are flowing again in my area the shops are all getting there orders in again.
I bought my primers and powders 4 year back. Probally a lifetimes worth. At that time everything was cheap and I would pick up a jug of powder and case of primers when I would see them locally. no haz-mat. At that time I just figured they got a little more expensive each year and a little harder to find. I never thought of it as hoarding just being prepared and frugal.