No4 Mk1 Sniper rifle.

Hi Guy's

I have just purchsed this rifle, on the link bellow.

FirearmSales - Product InfoEnfield No4 Mk1 Sniper Rifle - Create - Scope tin - All matching

The scope and rifle serials are correct, but there is another number on the side of the scope mount that as far as I can tell does not match anything, that seems unusual to me, any idea's why that would be? I was under the impression english snipers didn't serial the mounts on No4's.

Also on the box were 2 official looking stickers, either end acting like a seal? they were marked Dept of consumer affairs.

Any idea's why those would be there? DOD seals I could understand, but what were the Department of Consumer affairs doing with a .303 sniper in the 50's ?

Andy

The number on the mount is a rifles serial number and it appears you mount does not match the rifle. The mounts were numbered to the rifle as they were setup for that specific rifle. Others will have better info for you.

Also the scope is different then the No32's you normally see and the markings are different, not clear in the pics. The elevation and windage block is different as is the adjustment knobs. It does not appear to be a No32 scope made by the British but is from another country, I just can't remember off the top of my head.


Maybe Mr.Laidler with reply to your post and he will have the info.

Hi ... :)

I believe the number on the bracket is usually the rifle number, like this.

http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG


I don't see any markings on the scope itself. Are there any?


Also, is the scope serial number stamped into the wood on the top wrist of the rifle butt, like this?

http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG](Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG



Check the England - Milsurp Knowledge Library for the representative example we have there, of an "all correct" 1944 Enfield No.4 Mk1(T) Sniper Rifle (Mfg by BSA Shirley - M47c), complete with a 130 picture photo montage of most of the markings and components you should see on yours.

I added pics from the vendor's advertisement here, to make it easier for everyone to scan through and view ... :thup:

Hope this helps ... :)

Regards,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AndyGC123

Hi Guy's

I have just purchsed this rifle, on the link bellow.

FirearmSales - Product InfoEnfield No4 Mk1 Sniper Rifle - Create - Scope tin - All matching

The scope and rifle serials are correct, but there is another number on the side of the scope mount that as far as I can tell does not match anything, that seems unusual to me, any idea's why that would be? I was under the impression english snipers didn't serial the mounts on No4's.

Also on the box were 2 official looking stickers, either end acting like a seal? they were marked Dept of consumer affairs.

Any idea's why those would be there? DOD seals I could understand, but what were the Department of Consumer affairs doing with a .303 sniper in the 50's ?

Andy

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British rifle, British scope mount, British transit box, Isreali manufactured scope, Scope tin??

Yes Isreali scope , I knew that just could not remember it at the time. Scope tin maybe Isreali also, I have not seen a scope tin like that before.

[QUOTE=Badger;81283]Hi ... :)

I don't see any markings on the scope itself. Are there any?
Also, is the scope serial number stamped into the wood on the top wrist of the rifle butt, like this?



Yes the scope has some markings, not much,just what you can make out in the picture of the scope, they are very faint.

Serial 519 on the scope & on shoulder of butt stock.

Andy

these are the pictures of the consumer affairs stickers I was talking about & the serial on the shoulder of the butt.

Andy

The scope is an Israeli scope and it is one of the early ones made from a British 32. The Israelis also made their own 32 scope but it is much different in looks and internals. At a quick glance it does look similar. The second model is most ingenious and one of the most simplified scopes I've played with. Made for easy production with less than a skilled work force and able to be manufactured with minimal precision equipment. Pop the wood and see if any Israeli markings on the rifle barrel.
Any chance of some close ups of the scope. The right hand writing on the scope just says "Telescope" in Hebrew

Very interesting. Never say never about Enfields. Could the lad have scored an IDF rifle or a collection of just interesting equipments? How many IDF scopes are on the market?

Good post and good replies.

....Pura Vida....
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wheaty

Pop the wood and see if any Israeli markings on the rifle barrel.
Any chance of some close ups of the scope. The right hand writing on the scope just says "Telescope" in Hebrew

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Hello,
I cant see any Israeli markings on the barrel, there is some strange markingings on the top of the reciever. (pictured)

There are not any more markings on the scope than what has already been pictured, if you let me know your email address I can send a higher resolution photo if that's useful.? Have taken closeups of top/left/right of scope

The Hebrew thing would explain the weird wrighting on the note inside the scope tin !

Thanks

Andy

If I remember correctly, I have seen a few of these Israeli 'No32's'. The mechanicals are a bit different but the optics are taken straight from the No42 and 53 scopes, redundant from use as the BESA co-axial machine gun from the Mk7 Churchill gun tanks.

Waste not, want not as they say in Tel Aviv

I do stand corrected on the scope. The second round of pictures were a bit better. The scope is an Israeli made one and not one of the converted British No.32's. The scope you have is very interesting internally and while it does resemble the 32 externally had NO resemblance to the British 32 in the mechanisms. Lenses are different, as are the turret adjustments and reticule diaphragm. As I said previously, the scope was made to allow the use of none precision instrumentation and semi skilled workers. I am researching the company that made them right now and contrary to popular believe it was not Nimrod.
Stay tuned for more developments on this scope. A number were sold in the USA some years ago by a large surplus arms and parts dealer. Most were in the tin and in fair condition to as new.

The Israelis seem to have fitted up their own No4(T)s as well. The 'one up, two down' screw pattern on the front pad being the most obvious indicator I believe. There are some on ePay at the moment IIRC.

Yes, I bought one of the surplus scopes from the US when they were on offer about 15 years ago as I had an Israeli set-up rifle to complete. It all went together quite nicely & went off to a late lamented collector buddy in New Zealand.
At the time I saw a few Israeli set up barrelled actions from which I chose mine......They were all from the 'tunnel' at Parker-Hale. IIRC the rear pads are also squared off at the bottom so that they can be used on a radiused (eg BSA Shirley) or angled (later Maltby/most Long Branch) receiver side wall. I think I still have a rear pad somewhere which I used for many years as part of a jig to spin No32 brackets on my lathe!

ATB

Oy, some jig! I try to bore stuff like that on the milling machine, just to avoid the imbalance issues of swinging off-center tooling round at high rpm. But- hey, if it works, it works!

BTW and OT- Around here, one of the favourite jobs is the machining of the M1D scope ring from 7/8" to 1". Seems each is a bit different in the hinge pin and clamping screws locations, so simply indexing on the existing bore doesn't quite work out. If you're not careful its easy to intrude on those areas which means a failed job! A bit of fiddling will usually get things on track. Fortunately, no requirement for positioning relative to the bore exists except that its got to be parallel.

You're quite right.........but don't forget I'm only a doc not an engineer! I spin the brackets about the rear thumb screw boss to true it up, as whilst most machining operations are done for me, I have to do some finishing off on each bracket before it is ready to blast, phosphate & suncorite. The lathe was a prett hefty old German piece, so it stood up to the battering pretty well!

ATB