I have a type 3 band on a CMP carbine. It is marked EM-Q on the bayonet lug and JMQ on the band. Riesch makes no mention of anything marked JMQ. Any of you guys know anything about these (where they came from and when)?
Thanks
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I have a type 3 band on a CMP carbine. It is marked EM-Q on the bayonet lug and JMQ on the band. Riesch makes no mention of anything marked JMQ. Any of you guys know anything about these (where they came from and when)?
Thanks
Its a late war/post war upgrade part. It was made by J.M.Mueller Furnace Co. with the lug made by Endicott Machine.
I was going to start a new thread asking some help on identifying this band, but after searching JMQ, decided to tack something on to this one. I think I asked about this 7 or 8 years ago on BattleRifles.com and one of you guys told me it was Mueller Furnace. Since that time I found a document on the Internet that lists the code for Mueller Furnace as just "m" (lower case). My band is actually marked J.M.Q. so I'm assuming it was a replacement intended for QHMC. Were these made under a late WWII contract and then installed during the post war arsenal rebuilds? My bayonet lug is stamped CQ and I'm guessing that's Consolidated for QHMC. Does this sound right? - Bob
Attachment 20935Attachment 20936
Bob,Quote:
Originally Posted by USGI
There is a very good 7 page article in CC newsletter #356 dated Nov 2009 that talks about and shows sketches of the type 3 barrel bands.
It lists J.M.Q. on the band with CQ, EM-Q or nothing on the lug. Made during and post WW2
J.M.Q. being Mueller made for Quality Hardware
CM, CQ probably refer to Consolidated Industries
EM-Q being Elgin Metal Novelty for the lugs.
Does CC newsletter #356 list who MMQ was on the band?
Maid-O-Mist Inc.
Thanks Jim
Guys: None of them were Post War. These bands were all produced during WWII.
Atlas Manufacturing, St. Paul, Mn (Ord 3863) June 44..... July 45
Donaldson Co. St. Paul. Mn (Ord 3869) June 44..... Apr 45
L J Mueller Furnace Co. Milwaukee, Wi. (Ord 4244) July 44....... Apr 45
Quality Hardware, Chicago, Ill. (Ord 3862) June 44..... June 45
It appears that Quality Hardware had several sub contractors.
Thanks Bill, good info.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ricca
I note in "War Baby," pgs 383-384 "Summing Up the Quality HMC Carbine Program," Ruth does not even list the type III band w/bayonet lug. Is this just an oversight, or is it discussed elsewhere in the book?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ricca
Bill,
I should have said made during the war, used during and post war.
Thanks for correcting me.
Jim
I do not know for sure about his book listing the bands, although it is a magnificent publication.Quote:
Ruth does not even list the type III band w/bayonet lug
I will make a guess. Most authors' books cover the production of the firearms, which means they have information on the production and sub contractors. These contracts were directly with the government.
These contracts are not in the 1946 published books by the carbine makers about their production and their sub contractors.
Most research in the past has not covered Ordnance and its contracts of spare parts. That is one reason why the "Post War" myth has been around for over 40 years.
page 286Quote:
Originally Posted by G26ster
Thanks Brian. I saw that, but I guess I was addressing the omission of the type III band in the QHMC Summary in War Baby. The bayo lug band is not listed there as a QHMC used part. Riesch only lists the MMQ marked band under QHMC, but then says it was not a QHMC part, and only used in post war rebuild. So I am a bit confused when it comes to late production QHMC carbines as to which band was installed. I have a 4.71m QHMC. It currently has a cut down type III band, but my 4.5m Rock-ola has the MMQ type III, which I know is an arsenal replacement.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianQ
Is it safe to say that QHMC ended their carbine production before any of the Type 3 bands were installed? The Riesch book doesn't list any use of them by QHMC. This is unrelated to this Type 3 band thread, but seeing the initials "L J" Mueller, instead of just "J" Mueller raises the question of whether they might have supplied any recoil plates? - just thinking they might have been the source of the L J marked recoil plates, rather than Jewel Bros. Just a hunch - probably wrong, though. Something Bill mentioned in the recoil plate thread most likely applies here too - and that is (with some exceptions) if the part has the code letter(s) for the sub-contractor along with the code of the prime-contractor, then it was produced under a WWII contract. I hope I worded that correctly. - BobQuote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ricca
PS - I'm still curious as to when and/or why the code for Mueller Furnace was changed from "m" to "JM"? One September '44 dated document shows it as "m".
The M could be a typing error, unless there were bands marked M. I do not remember seeing one.
I have no contract for Mueller with Recoil Plates. I do have the contract with Jewell Bros. Thus 99% sure it was Jewell.