Strange Enforcer

Today came across a strange Enforcer action.

The action is marked up all correctly (serial number 706), still wrapped in waxed paper and has a label on it stating "DO NOT USE"

What's strange is that it is a Longbranch action (not an Enfield action), it has an 'action hung' trigger (ie Mark 2) but it has the cut-out slot in the bolt tramway for the bolt head. It does not have the spring loaded 'button' just in front of the charger bridge. If I remember correctly that should make it a Mk1*

So were RSAF Enfield looking to make No4 Mk1/3 Longbranch actions into Enforcers ?

Apparently only two Longbranch action Enforcers are known to exist - can anyone confirm or deny this ?

Mine is different as well but not too that extent !!

Surely, the action you have is a No4 Mk1/3. The hung trigger converts it FROM a Mk1* TO a Mk1/3.

On that basis, I should imagine that they specified DO NOT USE so that the system maintained a single type of Mk1's/1*'s. A mixed fleet would consist of Mk1's/1*'s. Mk1/2's and 1/3's and all the duplication of spares etc that that entails

A mixed fleet of weaponry (such as Brens and L4's which was quite common for many many years and SA80 A1's and 2's) isn't a good idea in the Army. Just think how it'd confuse the Police...............

We also had mixed fleets of No32 Mk2, Mk2/1 and 3 telescopes too. What a pain! And don't mention Mk5 Sten gun butts. You could have bucketsfull of bits but not enough of the RIGHT bits!

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Surely, the action you have is a No4 Mk1/3. The hung trigger converts it FROM a Mk1* TO a Mk1/3.

On that basis, I should imagine that they specified DO NOT USE so that the system maintained a single type of Mk1's/1*'s. A mixed fleet would consist of Mk1's/1*'s. Mk1/2's and 1/3's and all the duplication of spares etc that that entails

A mixed fleet of weaponry (such as Brens and L4's which was quite common for many many years and SA80 A1's and 2's) isn't a good idea in the Army. Just think how it'd confuse the Police...............

We also had mixed fleets of No32 Mk2, Mk2/1 and 3 telescopes too. What a pain! And don't mention Mk5 Sten gun butts. You could have bucketsfull of bits but not enough of the RIGHT bits!

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I did make reference to a No4 Mk1/3 in the original posting.
Was it not RSAF Enfield that were converting MK1 / 1* to Mk1/2 & Mk1/3. I dont think Longbranch were doing the conversions where they ?
Why they would be messing about with a 1943 Longbranch action, to make an Enforcer surely it would be doing themselves out of business.

All of the Enforcers I've seen or know of are built on Enfield Mk2 actions.

Can you post some photos of the action?

Hard to see why Enfield would use a /3 action - would have thought that the bolt rail cut-out wouldn't fit with the customer specification & expectation.

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Originally Posted by Thunderbox

Can you post some photos of the action?

Hard to see why Enfield would use a /3 action - would have thought that the bolt rail cut-out wouldn't fit with the customer specification & expectation.

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Its with an RFD but I'll see what I can get from him.

I've confused the issue. The point I'm making is that (presumably) the reason they didn't want a Mk1/3 action is that they wanted all the Enforcers built on Mk1/2 or 2 actions. That's just my thoughts on how they think..... having thought like they think for many many years!

They wouldn't be putting themselves out of business because the Enforcer actions were all used/2nd hand in any case. The only NEW new actions (bodies as we call 'em) were those in MoS store that were left over from Fazakerley production and used for the 'new build' L39.

They had considered using these new Fazakerley Mk2 bodies to 'new build' the L42 but the cost was prohibitive and expertise was no longer available.

Many tons of the old Fazakerley and other ROF closures large, secure and heavy equipment were stored at a huge MoS and later Home Office store at a place called Steventon, moved there when the equally huge Ordnance Depot at Didcot closed in the 70's

Now you lot are totally confusing me, my L39 clone is built on a long branch 1943 No4 Mk 1* with the bolt relese on the slider. The confusing thing is that perhaps, as it has an action hung trigger, it should have some sort of FTR info on it but is doesn't. Why not.

rhodders

Apologies for the quality of the pictures but you can clearly (?) see there is no 'bolt head release button' in front of the charger bridge, you can see Enforcer on the action and the 55L serial number on the butt socket.
Still got the original rear sight as well !!!
It has the correct 19T proof marks for a 7.62
Trying to get the lighting so you can read the markings when using a cheap camera is a nightmare


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...P1010124-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...P1010126-1.jpg

Can you photograph the number on the bolt handle (using macro setting)?

Maybe sharper photos would help, but at least four things on that action do not look "right" for an Enforcer to me.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thunderbox

Can you photograph the number on the bolt handle (using macro setting)?

Maybe sharper photos would help, but at least four things on that action do not look "right" for an Enforcer to me.....

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I dont have the action, its at an RFD, but, I'll ask.

Ignore me - not seeing clearly and seems to be impossible to delete posts...

Here are a couple of better pictures.

The bolt has no serial number but has been proofed and is stamped with the 19T proof mark.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCN1824-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCN1826-1.jpg

Hey Alan The style of ingraving is 100% the same as my Enforcer, maybe they did start using other bodys on the last batch made??

The engraving is the same type / font as my Enforcer 483, the only difference being there sems to be an area 'milled off' on 483 that presumably gave its original model / type number.

Some time ago someone posted 3 pictures showing the different engraving formats used during the life of the Enforcer, maybe someones still got it ?

I really must try and improve my pictures - maybe Father Christmas will bring a new camera for Christmas ???

Picture showing the milled area ( slightly recessed compared to the rest of the action) on No 483

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...SCF00012-1.jpg

I hae pics of all types but never worked out how to up load pics to here? !

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Originally Posted by neal455

I hae pics of all types but never worked out how to up load pics to here? !

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Thanks Neal - here are the three types (any chance you can get a clearer pic of the 'middle one' showing the engraving?)

1st pic seems to be the engraving 'design' on the lower numbered Enforcers (mine No 134 and has this type.

2nd pic seems to be the middle serial numbers

3rd pic is the higher numbers (my No 483 has this type)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rAction3-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rAxtion2-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rAction4-1.jpg

Hi Alan,

sorry for my interfere. I believe it has the No. like in the Pic

Regards

Gunner

The middle pic of mine shows a Enforcer THAT HAS HAD ITS numbers removed !!
Several are like like from a particular Police force. The number was still on the butt (inside the socket) I have seen at least 2 like this. The first picture is early Enforcers. The "STORY" is these started out as ENVOYS , but had that removed and Enforcer added. Peter Laidler comments that all Lee Enfield actions/bodies were made in the 50's and are not later made. Just left overs from the Faz factory. Plausable when my 684 Enforcer has a british broad arrow and several stamps with 50/pb on it
The enforcer Alan has IS slightly different, each person will have done differently thou!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gunner

Hi Alan,

sorry for my interfere. I believe it has the No. like in the Pic

Regards

Gunner

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Sie behindern nicht überhaupt. Ich bin immer zu jeder möglicher Authoritätinformation sehr dankbar. viel Dank.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neal455

The middle pic of mine shows a Enforcer THAT HAS HAD ITS numbers removed !!
Several are like like from a particular Police force. The number was still on the butt (inside the socket) I have seen at least 2 like this. !

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Now - theres a strange twist in the tale !
Cannot begin to guess why they would want to remove the serial numbers

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Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield

Now - theres a strange twist in the tale !
Cannot begin to guess why they would want to remove the serial numbers

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Be careful about any Enforcer that is not 100% standard or comes with a "story" that seeks to explain any "unique features".

Its possible that a Police force did erase markings - in order to disguise their ownership of a rifle that just might possibly be involved in a later crime by a civilian owner (shock tabloid headlines: "Police sell deadly high-powered sniper rifle to murdering gun nut", etc....).

I've also seen three "Enforcers" with these badly milled sections. Two of these had "Enforcer", etc, stamped inside the ovoids and were clearly just crude fakes, the third appeared to have erased markings, but was also not genuine. All three rifles were fitted with genuine Enforcer woodwork, of which many sets from scrapped rifles are/were floating around on the market.

Still, if you're prepared to pay big money for a less-than-standard Enforcer, then please PM me - I can make at least three magically appear, each with genuine woodwork and numbers.....

The bolt is obviously a post-war product. The left side has been 'linished' to remove the somewhat deeply stamped Long Branch markings.

The markings are misaligned which seems a bit odd, but I'm no expert on Enforcers...

Can't see the LB serial number, but presume it is a 44 or 45 action from the straight rather than concave shoulder on the lower left body side.

A bit odd that they would use it, but perhaps it just came through somehow and was plucked out later...for most of the people at RSAF(E) it was just a job probably, like most places.

LB No4(T)'s were converted to L42A1 despite their MkI* bodies, so not too odd perhaps?

Given the PH rear base fitted and wear it would seem to have been used at some point, whether as an Enforcer or a "lunchbox special".

If the bolt looks properly numbered to the action it might be one of the above, but if not, perhaps just a body/receiver used to practice on - engraving for example...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neal455

The middle pic of mine shows a Enforcer THAT HAS HAD ITS numbers removed !!
Several are like like from a particular Police force. The number was still on the butt (inside the socket) I have seen at least 2 like this. The first picture is early Enforcers. The "STORY" is these started out as ENVOYS , but had that removed and Enforcer added. Peter Laidler comments that all Lee Enfield actions/bodies were made in the 50's and are not later made. Just left overs from the Faz factory. Plausable when my 684 Enforcer has a british broad arrow and several stamps with 50/pb on it
The enforcer Alan has IS slightly different, each person will have done differently thou!

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Do we have any sources that could corroborate Neal's story regarding Envoys being converted to Enforcers? it does not sound far-fetched, but something more concrete is needed. It wasn't THAT long ago. If we can get a definitive answer regarding the factory methods used to mark Enforcers, then we will have a better idea of how to spot fakes. Neal, was that middle picture of Enforcer #380? I know where it's magazine is, if you know where the Enforcer is.

Alen did you end up buying the action? What was the asking price?

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Originally Posted by spinecracker

Do we have any sources that could corroborate Neal's story regarding Envoys being converted to Enforcers? it does not sound far-fetched, but something more concrete is needed. It wasn't THAT long ago. .

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Sussex Police were unable to get enough Enforcers to meet their needs, they therefore purchased some Envoys, which the Foirce Armourer "converted into sniper rifles"
I do not know if he ground away the word "Envoy", or added "Enforcer", but I would doubt it, all he wanted was a 'Sniper Rifle'.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by No4Mk1(T)

Alen did you end up buying the action? What was the asking price?

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No I didnt - I'll PM you

You could check the barrel marking on the Enforcer that has the 2 line milling cut and tell us what they are. I can only suspect that the milling cuts were made to deface the receiver or rifle as it was being sold out of Police service. Can you measure the depth on the milling cut?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rgg_7

You could check the barrel marking on the Enforcer that has the 2 line milling cut and tell us what they are. I can only suspect that the milling cuts were made to deface the receiver or rifle as it was being sold out of Police service. Can you measure the depth on the milling cut?

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As part of the research into my proposed book(let) I have contacted the various Police Forces (under the Freedom of Information Act) requesting details of what Enforcers were held by them, serial numbers, how they were disposed of etc.

The common theme coming back is as follows - I quote :

"Provision of information under the Freedom of Information Act should not in any way jeopardise the Constabulary’s aims to effectively Police the community. When dealing with pre-planned and spontaneous firearms incidents, we would not wish for those criminals or potential terrorist to be supplied with a tactical advantage over the constabulary by the provision of detailed firearm resouce data.

The information could be used to clone Police weaponry should that individual have an extensive knowledge of firearms. Should a scenario arise that these armaments are then used in committing crimes, the health and wellbeing of the general public would be placed at risk, causing difficulties for any subsequent investigations"

The fact that they disposed of them 20 or 30 years ago seems to be irrelevant.

The majority of Police forces are telling me that they Guillotined the Enforcers under Police Force policy of not letting weapons into 'civilian hands'.

I suppose (and it is only supposition) that some forces who sold off their Enforcers may have scrubbed all details except a serial number (or maybe even made-up a new serial number) to avoid the peceived 'problem' of criminals using Police weapons.

I suppose the only surprise is that any were released at all! Must have been in the years before arse-covering in the authorities became all encompassing.

In my travels on the web looking for info on enforcers I've found a few similar requests:

http://www.suffolk.police.uk/NR/rdon...08/0/05396.pdf

http://66.102.9.132/search?q=cache:Y...&ct=clnk&gl=uk

http://www.hampshire.police.uk/NR/rd.../HC0015607.pdf

You'll be unsurprised to know they don't add greatly to your enforcer knowledge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rgg_7

You could check the barrel marking on the Enforcer that has the 2 line milling cut and tell us what they are. I can only suspect that the milling cuts were made to deface the receiver or rifle as it was being sold out of Police service. Can you measure the depth on the milling cut?

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I will get a vernier and find that out as soon as I can :)

As I just mentioned on the other Enforcer thread that is running at the moment, the patent number on the barrel is identical to the patent number on Alan's #134 - text, size, and location. Apart from inspection and the patent marks, the other marks on the barrel include:

Knox form on top - an s with broad arrows either side pointing in, "CR 1470" followed by the Enfield symbol then "73 6"

Just in front of Knox form on top - "1"

Under barrel, about 2 inches from receiver - "FB358"

The bolt appears to be completely original and not messed with, but would they have sold the bolts off with the scrapped wood? It is a load bearing component, after all. When they use the guillotine, don't they just cut through the entire rifle without bothering to remove any parts? According to Alan's comments above regarding getting information from polices forces, I do not think we will ever get an answer.

My barrel has this marking:

PAT APPLN No 15572/73.

This is on top of the barrel just behind the front sight.

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Originally Posted by Simon P

My barrel has this marking:

PAT APPLN No 15572/73.

This is on top of the barrel just behind the front sight.

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Yep, that's the one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PrinzEugen

I suppose the only surprise is that any were released at all! Must have been in the years before arse-covering in the authorities became all encompassing.

In my travels on the web looking for info on enforcers I've found a few similar requests:

http://www.suffolk.police.uk/NR/rdon...08/0/05396.pdf

http://66.102.9.132/search?q=cache:Y...&ct=clnk&gl=uk

http://www.hampshire.police.uk/NR/rd.../HC0015607.pdf

You'll be unsurprised to know they don't add greatly to your enforcer knowledge.

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These are my requests under the FOI Act, you may note that Devon & Cornwall claim that all of their Enforcers (except one) were guillotined, I personally know of three ex D&C Police Enforcers so I raised the question with them again under the "not happy with your response system" - their reply was, "it was a long time ago and we do not have the records but we think they were destroyed".

How are we ever to get a handle on what really happened to the Enforcers, surely it would have been more honest to say "we dont know".

It would be great if the records were made public. The information may not exist; may be buried in the archieves or will not be made available under the legistlation your citing.

Start with one Force and have a face to face meeting. Show them the records you have and give an explaination for the request. I sure they're reasonable folks.

A M Stevens has a lot of info. have you contacted him. He's been at this a long time and been building a data base. His website is index.htm. I'm certain he'd be willing to share info.

I've been told by a few folks that between 60 and 70% were destroyed. Early on in the disposal program these were sold to clubs and other Gov't organizations. UK Police Forces obsoleted the Enforcer in the mid 1980's to be replaced by the M85.

If you have an Enforcer (#395) like the one Robert has you're very fortunate. It appears to be genuine. It's missing a few things however he's in the process of acquiring them.

Great rifle, Enjoy

Ron

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rgg_7

It would be great if the records were made public. The information may not exist; may be buried in the archieves or will not be made available under the legistlation your citing.

Start with one Force and have a face to face meeting. Show them the records you have and give an explaination for the request. I sure they're reasonable folks.

A M Stevens has a lot of info. have you contacted him. He's been at this a long time and been building a data base. His website is index.htm. I'm certain he'd be willing to share info.

I've been told by a few folks that between 60 and 70% were destroyed. Early on in the disposal program these were sold to clubs and other Gov't organizations. UK Police Forces obsoleted the Enforcer in the mid 1980's to be replaced by the M85.

If you have an Enforcer (#395) like the one Robert has you're very fortunate. It appears to be genuine. It's missing a few things however he's in the process of acquiring them.

Great rifle, Enjoy

Ron

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Yes - I am fortunate as I currently own two (all complete) Enforcers (134 & 483) but 134 is on its way to a new home in Canada within the next few days.
Unfortunately 483 doesnt have the correct 70's bipod but other than that they are both 'correct'.
134 is the one at the rear of the picture.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...SCF00112-1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rgg_7

. UK Police Forces obsoleted the Enforcer in the mid 1980's to be replaced by the M85.

Ron

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A bit OT, but did they actually buy sizable quantities of the M85? Are they still being used? I never knew that this platform got much past the "test and evaluation" phase.

I don't know the number purchased however I'd assume that it equaleed the Enforcer number. These are just being phased out by destruction. The M85 was also made available to the public and was assembled and/or sold in the USA by Gibbs.

I've a British proofed M85 for several years now, that's not a "Gibb's". have one Parker-Hale one piece 1" scope bracket and one ruined 26mm bracket. Trying to find an appropriate scope.

Nice rifle, but they didn't work out all the "bugs", I think.

I guess its a good Enforcer stand-in, as I've never owned one of those!

Alan,
I know where there is an Enforcer 667 for sale at a great price if anyone's interested which is coincidentally a Devon & Cornwall rifle so they haven't got a clue what they are saying, and from my experience it is a case of the 360 degree wheel going around and current officers wouldn't have a clue what was crushed at the time, because they weren't there and not serving probably!!

Just remember that here was a number of Enforcers build up from parts. Not sure how many but I heard the number close to a dozen when the person involved popped off. I understand there was also a large number of parts other than receivers, however someone in the UK will probably know more on the disposition of the parts.

Many of the late serial number rifles in the 600-700 range were assembled from parts swapped directly to Charnwood Ordnance by Enfield when the Pattern Room was moved from Enfield to Nottingham. They are easy to distinguish as they have no serial numbers on the bolts but are otherwise assembled from new condition original parts. There were Savage Mk.1/3 receivers used including the last documented one produced, serial number 767 so it's perfectly feasible that some Long Branch Mk.1/3 receivers were also used.

Warren,
Agreed, but the rifle by virtue of its pure pedigree and the selection process it has undergone, will make it a sort after item in my view in the next 12 months, as I have been watching the price climb slowly but sensibly in comparison to the L42A1. The numbers available set the price in my book.................Lets see what happens?

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Originally Posted by Brian Dick

..........so it's perfectly feasible that some Long Branch Mk.1/3 receivers were also used.

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Sort of like this one ?
I found this one in a Gun Shop "back room" - the guy had purchased the gun shop and when he moved in and took an inventory he found enough parts in a 'back room' to build more than a dozen Enforcers. These were ex Enfield 'sell offs' that the original shopowner had purchased at auction against Charnwood,

This action now resides back in Canada.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCN1824-1.jpg

A lot of people insist that the Enforcers were built on new, specially selected actions - they were not !!!

The more you investigate the Enforcer story the more you begin to wonder !!!!

Yes Sir. Exactly like that one. I imported a few of the Charnwood builds from CS Military Collectables in the 90's and early 2000's. I was happy to have them as built by anyone since I'd never seen one before!

---------- Post added at 05:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:23 PM ----------

I see it's got a 19T proofed bolt installed. Does it have a matching serial number to the body?

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Originally Posted by Brian Dick

I see it's got a 19T proofed bolt installed. Does it have a matching serial number to the body?

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I don't remember - it was a couple of years ago, Maybe the new Canadian owner will comment ( he does call in here from time to time)

Alan,
More surprising because 706 was forecast but on paper never built or attributed to an end user.
Very odd!!!

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Originally Posted by Gil9713

Alan,
More surprising because 706 was forecast but on paper never built or attributed to an end user.
Very odd!!!

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All 767 actions and other parts were manufactured and/or purchased but some number (50+ ?) were just never assembled, many of these 'parts' were purchased by Charnwood, and others, to be assembled and sold as 'new' Enforcers. Some such as 706 sat in 'back rooms' and were not assembled. The parts were sold off piecemeal to anyone wanting a specific Enforcer part, butt, handguard, barrel etc etc.

Are they Enforcers if they were not assembled by Parker Hale and Enfield, you'll have to decide for yourself !!

So in all these years of searching for the HOLY GRAIL, there could possibly have been more than one, or was it that Jesus had a load of spares...............thats what that sounds like, and it does make a bit of a mockery of it all. (no offence intended)

But in answer to your question, one has to assume a manufacturing standard was reached by Enfield under contract to get these 767 out on the ground, and that's what they did.
One also has to surmise, that 767 weren't just set aside and when they got to the bottom of the pile, thought job done.
Yes there probably would have been spare selected 4T actions laying around, but unstamped, because if my job was to stamp 767, that's what they would have got. No more no less.
It appears to me all 767 were not required and thats why there are so many gaps of unissued rifles in the lists, but their actions still lurk out there somewhere!!!
Feel your book sequel being written already..........the search for the lost actions!!

Someone will know that those unfinished but stamped actions were sold off as spares surely?? Maybe not, but I count and reckon 124 recorded to be made, but in fact werenever made up by Enfield, could that be right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gil9713

but I count and reckon 124 recorded to be made, but in fact werenever made up by Enfield, could that be right?

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Possibly but my research shows 134 not assembled by Enfied / Parker Hale

Alan,
Will this appear in your book on the subject as its quite an interesting point, as that makes it 633 legitimately built by Enfield /PH and issued from Donnington with the 134 out there somewhere, and whoever supplied the 767 total originally meant 767 stamped actions and numbered

Just reading this thread alone it would seem that there will never be the definitive book about Enforcers. How could there ever be?

I also have the most severe doubts that there was ever a shortage of Enforcer rifles. It's like saying that there was a shortage of No4 rifles! They were a Government contract via the Home Office to a specification and if the Government tell another Government factory to make XYZ, then they do! At the time Enfield were actively looking for commercial work and would sell barrels. Indeed, they were already selling the private venture Envoys commercially to anyone via a registered dealer!

As for the notion that Police Armourers could convert another rifle such as an Envoy to an Enforcer and THEN mill out the old markings and THEN re-engrave it and THEN............... I could go on. And where in heavens name would he get the a) wherewithall, b) accurate measuring facilities in order to achieve the accurate fitting of the mounts etc etc. Once again....., I could go on

We know that some - and I leave it at that - have actually drilled into the barrels to screw down the front scope mount. Not just drill into the barrel, but drill so far that the chamber has bulged!

Nope, I'm not sure that there will ever be a definitive book Al. A discussion papre maybe but............. And remember this Alan. When you write a book, the FIRST person to read it immediately knows more than you. That's because he already knows the tiny bit he knew before PLUS all, every last bit, of what you have just researched and written.

What a nuisance !!!! just spent ages writing out a reply and whoooosh its gone .

So brief version :

At this rate I won't need to write a book - it'll all be here already.

518 shipped to UK Police Forces
99 Exported (Hong Kong etc)
16 'others' (destroyed during manufacture etc)

Total 633

Leaving 134 - actions were built and numbered but never assembled.

Interestingly Enfield shipped 8 Enforcers to Sussex Police. When I made an FOI (Fredom Of Information) request they said they never had Enforcers. They did however (they said) buy some Envoys from a local Dealer.

Bought from a local dealer eh! Mmmmmm......... The Q I'd ask is that if they could have the Govt/HO APPROVED rifle supplied, free/gratis/fer nichts then why on earth would they go an buy an 'inferior' untried and tested, certainly for Police use rifle from outside? And we all know/remember the xxxt hitting the fan when an untried and untested and unapproved weapon was used during the Moat episode. Call me an old cynic and all that but a pragmatic and realistic cynic none the less. Just my take on things.

Being at the Infantry HQ taught me some thinmgs about FoI. One thing was that while all the requests could come IN, not all the info was actually available. In years gone by, it only had to be retained for 3 years or so but was retained for 5. How do you answer anything older?

We had a request for info about someones small-arms related injury and subsequent operation at a BMH (British Mil Hospital) in Nairobi, Kenya in 1956! At least now, the info is computerised and stays virtually forever!

Meant to mention that to Doug, the same thing happened to me the other day too, maybe, its because the page is dormant for a while, as you type.....no idea.

The second time around you haven't got the same interest or inclination ha ha!

Alan,
Your story is worth putting on the site, as ALL snippets and pieces of the jigsaw will bring the picture together eventually as I did on the M85 information. Best out in the open before people store it and forget to offer it up, and depart this earth. At least then it will be appreciated, by Enforcer owners. You have unearthed some interesting points which some on here may have the answers to.
I do get twitchy when I hear of literally "loose cannons" or weapons are put together or could be, put together by unqualified people, especially when it involves barrels of 7.62 calibre as Peter alluded to earlier in the thread.
At 19T Tonnes its one hell of a second chance you'll need if something goes wrong when the triggers pulled.

Apologies, if I appear to be scare mongering, that was not my intention, it was merely one of caution and making sure one knew where a rifle had changed its lifestyle "unofficially" and that at the very least it had received paperwork to cover it from an approved test house .
IMHO

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield

What a nuisance !!!! just spent ages writing out a reply and whoooosh its gone .

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gil9713

Meant to mention that to Doug, the same thing happened to me the other day too, maybe, its because the page is dormant for a while, as you type.....no idea.

The second time around you haven't got the same interest or inclination ha ha!

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Hi guys .. :)

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Regards,
Doug

Aha thanks Doug it was probably that dratted cuppa calling at the crucial time that sealed it for me :super::super:

Will post about 706 as a new Thread.

I have it.

Interesting copy of what, crikey it must have risen from the ashes? Lee Enfield Enforcer 7.62 mm Rifles For Sale in Greater Manchester :: GunStar

Bit of 'misrepresentation' ? and not quite sure what this means "This enforcer is a good copy but appears all original"

Well - of course, any No4 based rifle in 7.62 calibre, with 'sporterised' furniture and AJP 'target' sights has got to be an Enforcer

Alan,
Probably as "proper" as the 134 that never got assembled by Enfield either hate to think what bits are cobbled to those actions now:rolleyes:

Alan

For all the reasons for and against Enforcers they still were Lee Enfields, they do have a chequered story, they aren't very numerous.

Like them or not, interest in them will only increase and it would be nice to have a definitive text on them (even {or particularly!} if it does become the subject of much debate).

With so few I suspect a pretty good list of genuine items will evolve.

Write your book

PLEASE

John

PS I suspect you have most of my information on them but will happily send a pendrive of them.

Alan,
I would agree with John and others, write the book, and I would certainly buy one, because I am sure we will learn a great deal from your research about this outstanding, albeit little used rifle

Enforcer 706 Posted:

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=47277

I'd be especially interested in all the stampings/marks on the Enforcer and what they all might mean. There's quite a few of them on different rifles which don't seem to stand for anything to the lay user - have we ever spoken to anyone involved in the Enforcer program? We need the police sniper armourer equivalent of Mr Laidler!

.I know the Intelligence Corps Major, Major George Xxxxxx that was head of the MoD advisory board for the Enforcer programme. And I know this might upset some, but, not my words you understand........... He told me that at the time the Enforcers were approved by the Home Office for supply and delivery to the UK Police Forces that the No4T's that were issued should be withdrawn. This was because there was no such beast as a Police sniper. There were Police 'good shots' and there might be Police 'marksmen' but the only snipers were Army snipers (I suppose he meant Marines/RAF etc etc too) who had been on the sniper courses. This was because there was no 'standard' to ascertain or to quantify the veracity of their description. There is an ACPO Firearms inspector, an ex REME Armourer Warrant Officer. He lives in the midlands so is conveniently placed to do his nationwide job. He was a regular visitor to Warminster and it was he who told me that there was absolutely no tampering beyond approved maintenance/cleaning/accessorising permitted.