Printable View
Hope this isn´t too far OT ... but could someone help me with information on how to fireform necked .303 cases for an Indian Enfield, reamed to take .401 brass cases? Anb could I load with ball or slug? As well as suggestions as to powder load.
Thanks for any help available.
Patrick
Why not just head off to a gunsmith and for 40 to 60 bucks have it reamed for 3" 410 shells?
Maybe thats not possible where you are
I have also heard that 444 Marlin cases work well
also 45 cases in long length can be had that will fill your bill 45-110 rings a bell as I remember
Other wise there is anealing etc
villiers
How do you spell “Google it” in Bavarian German :rolleyes:
Reloading .410 Bore Shotshells
I used to load two round balls in 45-70 so I know you can do something similar here. The shooters who fireform brass tell me to use 3-4 grains of pistol powder like red dot or something in that burning rate. Use corn meal over it to the top of the case. Hand chamber, point in the air and fire. It should push the shoulders out. If not completely then repeat. You might have some leading from the ball load but you could use finer shot like #6 and get a better result. Any way you look at it the head Jaeger will shake his head when he sees what you've done.
Farmrich ... it´s been reamed to take standard 410 shells, but I can re-load brass and have heard that it might be possible to fireform .303 cases to make them .410 cylindrical (can´t get anything for .410 here. Just not available)
Ed ... have Googled the subject for hours. Couldn´t find any clues on powder or fireforming methods ... or on how to crimpnthe brass.
Browningautorifle ---- THANKS! Can´t do much harm giving it a try.
PS
ED ... have just studied your link. Just what is needed. As always ... very grateful for your help.
Patrick
... and PPS
My (limited) German is Prussian, NOT Bavarian.
just get a .444 Marlin case and see if it fits your chamber. if yes, load em up.
Look what happened when I Googled Badger………:yikes:Quote:
Originally Posted by villiers
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
Couldn´t get hold of the Wheatabix stuff so used tapioca. Fireforming worked.
Hugo Uno, you´ve no idea the problems I´d encounter attempting to get hold of .444 Marlin cases.
Ed: the cat does not look happy.
MidwayDEUTSCHLAND - Hornady Brass 444 Marlin Box of 50Quote:
Originally Posted by villiers
Produkt: 541769
Hersteller: 8692
Preisbeschreibung: 40.80
Produktstatus zur Zeit nicht lieferbar
Voraussichtlich am Lager ab:Dec.18/2009
I once was told by a man who knew(cause he did it) you could use wads cut from an old felt hat to hold everything in place. You could put a pre-lubed over shot wad in on top to hold with a slight crimp of the case mouth. The hardest thing will be to get your components to stack without excess wad pressure on crimping.
Villiers
Faster than a semi-auto pistol or a .410 Enfield ;), load 3 pieces of .30 caliber buckshot in Speer shot capsules and load your .38/.357 revolver with them.
Pull the trigger 6 times and your target has 18 holes in it.
Or just pull the trigger three times……………….
"Two in the chest and one in the head always makes your opponent very dead"
General Sun Tzu 500 BC :rolleyes:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMGP6306-1.jpg
Edward, I've got to give that one a try! I've got a bag of 25 pounds of buck to use. What was the reference for loads?
It has been a long time but they were in a shooting magazine for making “safe” home defense loads that would not endanger your next-door neighbors home or shoot through your drywall and aluminum siding and penetrate next door.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
You could also use brass brazing rods cut to length and make your own Flachette Rounds.
The funny part was the article was very thorough, these rounds needed to penetrate a heavy Woolrich coat, a defrosted chicken but NOT shoot through your drywall and aluminum siding. The Flachette Rounds were not a problem but the Number 1 Buck (.30) needed to be kept at 800-850 fps to not penetrate your aluminum siding.
Use the Speer manual for the shot capsules charge to weight ratio.
I also used “three” .458 lead round balls in my 45-70 cases and they were called “Hoc Shop Loads" or Old West “Bartenders Loads”.
You also might be able to use .41 caliber gas checks top and bottom in the .303/.410 brass cases to seal and crimp your loads. ;)
Hugo Uno "Produktstatus zur Zeit nicht lieferbar " means it´s unavailable. Like most other re-loading articles in the last few months. Where´s it all gone???
Browninautorifle ... I used Ballistic Products Inc. white nylon "cushioned carrier" and they work. Am hoping to be able to find them once fired.
Still have to find a good method of crimping the brass.
Ed, that makes my eyes water ..
W/o flattened tails, the "fletchette" rods tend to turn sideways and spray in a very wide cone. Evil looking results on paper (and dead chickens), but never saw any definitive terminal ballistics study.
I found that when using two round ball, the one next to the powder flew true and the one in front was a flyer at about two inches somewhere in a circle around the first. They both had passable penetration on four inch farm fence posts. I mostly used a Ruger #3. Makes you wonder what it was like to use the Thompsen 1921 with the riot load inside a stone prison like Sing Sing?
Villiers, I was thinking once it was all in place a touch in a standard crimp of .44 or .45 might give enough roll to the end to hold secure.
I use an overshot cardboard wad cut from mat board with a sharpened punch made from a sawed off .303 round - held in place by a glob of white glue.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Regards,
George
That sound like the idea the 1909 blanks used. That would give a definite crispness to the over card.
Thanx ... I´ll try the wad `n glue method. Never knew how much fun the .410 could be!
Our tax dollars at work, don't you people in Bld 54 have any work to do :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattern14
Villiers,
when you've finished with all the interesting alternatives, why don't you just buy 410 shotshells?
Of course, the trick is to know that in Mauserland they are sold as "Kaliber 36 Schrothülsen".
Just go to the Johannsen site, download the online catalog, and you will find "Kaliber 36 Schrothülsen" somewhere about page 98 +/- a couple.
Yes, they are the same. Somewhere I once read an interesting article on how the whole caliber rating got screwed up when it came to the Cal.36/410. But it is sufficient to know that they are the same!
Patrick
Oh s*** now the secret is out!Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Horton
Lets see, a British Enfield shooting a .410 shotgun shell made in Germany,Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick
We will have to let the neutral Swiss decide what the correct head space should be.
And the British and Americans members here can argue over who invented it.
(Its deja vu all over again) :rolleyes:
http://cartridgecollectors.org/410/collecting410.htm
3 inch
2 inch
& 1 1/2 inch
I dug out this from "municion.org" - a site that is very valuable if you get into the "how the hell do I fudge up one of those" situation, which is common if, like me, you have a fancy for shooting BP guns in obsolete calibers.
410 Bore / Calibre 36 / Gauge 36/ 12 mm/ .410 Shotgun / 12 mm plomb / 12 xxx CBC xxx
Los .410 también son conocidos como calibre 36 (y 12 mm).
La primera referencia oficial al calibre .410 está en un documento de 1904 de la Royal british; el mismo documento tiene un 36 gauge (con el "correcto" .506" de diámetro).
Originalmente los .410 fueron diseñados para disparar un cartucho de 2" cargado con aproximadamente 5/16 onzas. Después se produjeron armas para manejar uno más largo de 2"½ . cargado con 7/16 onzas. La mayoría de los .410 modernos son de 3", cartuchos que pueden cargarse con ¾ onza.
Es un cartucho para el zorro y animales pequeños a 50 yardas.
Patrick
Edward,
I once saw for sale on an unmentionable auction site the following curious item: a bolt head for (I believe) a Mauser 1871 which incorporated a strong-looking coil spring. It was properly machined, not Bubba'ed, and seems to have been made with the idea of forcing the cartridge base hard up in the chamber, regardless of rim thickness. I was tempted to buy it as a curiousity, but here in the land of DIN you need an entry in your firearms licence just to get a spare bolthead! So I gave it a miss.
(The legislation means, for instance, that the idea of getting a handful of Lee Enfield bolt heads and trying them out for headspace optimization is just not practical in this particular piece of the wonderful world in which we live.)
Patrick
No hablay espanyole :D
"Pronounced four-ten, the .410 shotgun is a bore and not a gauge because the barrel diameter is .410 inches (10.4 mm); a true gauge is a measurement of the number of lead balls of bore diameter that constitute a pound (454 grams). The .410, when measured by gauge, would be around 67 or 68 gauge, not the sometimes mistakenly assigned 36 gauge. A true gauge measuring .410 would have a 2.25 inch (57 mm) bore; a 410 gauge would measure .225 inches (5.7 mm). In the US, the .410 is the only popular shotgun cartridge named by bore rather than gauge, though it is often referred to as a four-ten gauge. In the United Kingdom and other English speaking countries, all shotgun sizes are called bore, whether measured by gauge or bore diameter."
Around this area when we want to fire form a case without using a bullet we use hardened bee’s wax. Pour the melted wax into a oiled pan the depth of the case neck and let cool. With the powdered case hold pan upside down and press case neck into wax and twist when you hit the pan. Withdraw case and it will have a nice wax plug.
Two Notes.
1 The wax will cause a lot of damage when it leaves the muzzle, fire form outside safely.
2 A great deal of research went into this method. It took us several months to figure out how to get the wax in the case neck. Every time we tried it the powder would dump out of the case onto the slab of wax. :banghead:
I thought most Texicans were Irish and not Polish. (Or are you an Aggie) :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by JBS
Class of 68
Flour Bluff High School
Corpus Christi Texas ;)
Peter ... this is what I got from Johannsen (via: MidwayDEUTSCHLAND - Gualandi Light Game Shotshell Slug 410 Bore 93 Grain Lead/Wad Bag of 25). Expensive! Abd it took months to get. But it works and I now want to use brass cases and make my own slugs or ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick
BTW ... Sportarms sent me LE bolt heads nae bother ... WITHOUT asking for a WBK.