Hi there I am an enthusiastic ametuer collector of general militaria and recently was asked for my opinion regarding the DP markings stamped on the top of the stock behind the rear sight of a SMLE No 4 Does any body have any answers please
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Hi there I am an enthusiastic ametuer collector of general militaria and recently was asked for my opinion regarding the DP markings stamped on the top of the stock behind the rear sight of a SMLE No 4 Does any body have any answers please
Refer to the following … ;)
With thanks to Advisory Panel member Peter Laidler, a new set of Armourers training notes has been added to the Technical Articles for Milsurp Collectors and Re-loaders (click here).
1945 Rifle & Pistol Armourers Training Notes (click here)
1945 Miscellaneous Armourers Training Notes (click here)
Also, refer to the thread in the The Lee Enfield Collectors Forum (click here) titled DP Rifles (click here) by Peter Laidler.
Here's a site provided by Amatikulu with some good information to bookmark for the future.
Lee Enfield Rifle Markings (click here)
Hope this helps somewhat... :)
I've also moved your thread to the above forum, which is more appropriate to your question.
Regards,
Badger
What about individual parts that are marked "DP"? Does that mean the part itself was only suitable for DP service, or the entire rifle it was attached to? I have a 1913 Enfield No.1 Mk III (FTR'd in India in 1931). The nose cap is marked on the bottom with a small "DP", but no other parts are marked that way.
I've read the "ZF" thread, so I know I'm on sensitive ground here, but I'm a relative newbie to Enfields that's trying to learn, so go easy on me...
I think you're on safe ground there NP. It's when you've got one with the dreaded letters scattered all over it that there's a problem. It's an even bigger problem when you convince yourself that the dealer was for real when he told you it meant Dublin Police!
Like the dealer who told me that the big yellow ZF painted on the butt was Zimbabwe Forces!
But generally, we kept a tray of downgraded parts for DP rifles and Brens
Thanks. I figured a completely downgraded rifle would have been more conspicuously marked. What would be out of sorts with a nose cap that would have it marked "DP" (there are no obvious flaws on it), and why would it have been added to an otherwise servicable rifle?
We need to find out about the disposal system for each country that had the Enfield rifle and how they handled surplus weapons and how they disposed of surplus material i.e. scrap weapons and parts to get your answer.
“ZF” would never be left on an Enfield rifle that went through an FTR or any parts stored as serviceable
Right now Gibbs rifle and Aim surplus are selling 03-A4 Springfield 30-06 sniper rifles made from surplus re-welded DP rifle receivers.
J.J. Co bought all remaining stockpiles of Australian Enfield’s along with leftover component parts, so surplus dealers can do anything they wish.
I've seen more than a few deacts for sale here that had patched up wood taken off L59 drill rifles.
Just thinking out aloud to answer NP's question about what would be wrong with a No1 rifle nosecap to render it unserviceable and suitable for DP purposes, I'd think a stripped thread that had been re-tapped oversize or bend but straightened foresight protector that subsequently cracked or worn out bayonet boss and/or standard would be the obvious.
At our workshops we had 'inspectors' bayonets with white painted grips and a cut-off blade that we'd use as a visual go gauge to test the bayonet fittings on the rifle. We had them for all of them including the No1, 4, 5 and L1A1, AR15/M16's. There were large variations in No5 bayonets and muzzle ring diameters.
If the bayonets flopped around like the proverbial sausage in the high street then the rifle fitting would be changed. Likewise if the inspectors bayonet wouldn't fit or was unduly tight.
A bit off topic but are you sure about this Ed? According to their web sight they are using receivers they bought from Parker Hale when they closed up shop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Horton
Gibbs 1903-A4 Sniper Rifle (click here)
Quote:
Originally Posted by No4Mk1(T)
No4Mk1(T)
I do not conceder this off topic at all, when I got my first Enfield for Xmas I emailed Century Arms and asked if they checked headspace on their Enfield rifles. The answer came back NO we do not and are not required by law to perform ANY mechanical checks on these rifles as they are sold as C&Rs (wall hangers)
You never know what you could be getting from some importers and this is scary.
I read the link below just a few days ago and it was an eye opener because it is false advertising by Gibbs and Aim, the receivers have been re-welded.
Read carefully below the one poster who shot just a few rounds and the headspace changed drastically.
Please click on the link below.
New 1903's! - CMP Forums
This puts real meaning into what Mr. Laidler has been telling us about these rifles.
Most enlightening Ed thank you for the link. I had assumed from their web sight that the receivers being used were un-used surplus. I think I’d still be interested in having one if they were available here in Canada.
I completely agree on the topic of Mr. Laidler’s comments regarding the DP and ZF markings. Thanks for setting me straight Ed and educating the ignorant Peter.
No4Mk1(T)Quote:
Originally Posted by No4Mk1(T)
During the Reagan years as President here in the U.S. we went through “deregulation” this simply means the rich got richer and the little guy at the bottom got the shaft. Health and safety regulations moved backwards and as an example our American Boiled Linseed oil is toxic and your Canadian BLO is not.
The laws here in the U.S. are on the side of the manufactures and company profits come before our individual safety.
I wouldn’t touch one of those welded receivers on those Gibbs 03-A4 for love or money, my brother-in-law had a Santa Fe 03 remanufactured Springfield receiver and had nothing but problems with it. Caveat emptor
Went through one of those "'03-A4s" recently, which was easy, as NOT ONE screw was tight! Receiver was cracked at the bolt stop hole area, probably due to poor welding pre or post heat control. (Not a safety issue, but it didn't inspire confidence.) Plenty of other stuff not up to snuff, including the wretched scope. Really, really not impressed! OK for a re-enactor firing blanks, I reckon.
Ed, you thread on the re-welded bodies was frightening.......... Re-welding bodies...., it's a mind boggling idea. Surely somebody told them that when welding, the steel that you put BACK, ain't the same steel that the oxy-cutter took OUT. Let me just digest that again............. Re-welding bodies!
Peter, back in 1992, I picked up several DP marked Pattern 14 Enfields. International Firearms and Lever Arms were selling them for under $20, delivered. The only visible thing wrong with these rifles were the holes drilled through the stocks and chambers and a rod welded into the hole. These rifles were complete otherwise and in VG-Exc condition. All were matching numbered and when the barrels were pulled and the actions magnafluxed looked to be sound. Some of them looked to be new and unissued before they were mutilated. They certainly hadn't seen any use on the drill fields.
Supposedly they came out of the UK. Some, not all had red and white stripes painted around the receivers and stocks. I've seen several of these actions that were put to use later. They were Remingtons and Winchesters for the most part with a few Eddystones thrown in.
Any ideas on these and were you involved in or know of their disposal and why such pristine examples were DPed?
Never involved in any P 14 rifles except used to see a few when assisting the circuit Armourer at Cadet Forces who had all sorts of stuff!. But maybe these old rifles WERE used as DP marching/drill/fieldcraft etc etc rifles in the past and returned to Ordnance 20 or so years ago. And don't forget, they get returned to Ordnance in PERFECT condition. After all, you wouldn't want anything issued from Ordnance in shixx condition. Then they sold them off....
But we're not talking here about drilled barrels, we're talking about cut receiver bodies. It's a bit like your dads friend taking the drilled barrel and welding it up for you............. it's scary
When we returned some 70,000 Sterling SMG's to Ordnance they were all rebuilt to new condition and returned complete to CES. And if you were short of kit, it had to be made up! Then within a few years, they were all scrapped
Ed, The only thing deregulated in the gun trade here under Reagan was the importation of surplus military firearms as banned since the GCA of 1968. I think you might remember who controlled Congress at that time? It's the same bunch we have now controlling everything. I like to think of them as neo-fascist. Anyhow, enough of that. The big importers are rich most likely becuse they started out rich and don't give a dead rat's behind about anything except selling you guys their wares. Caveat Emptor! Brian
If you think that welding receivers is shocking Mr. Laidler you should have seen how frightened I was when I found out the British played with their butts. :yikes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I know what you are going to say, butt Badger wouldn’t let me post any real photos. :rolleyes:
(they used weldwood wood glue) :D
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...522Rifle-1.jpg