RFI .410 question

:sos:I just acquired a 1913 No.1 Mk3 (RFI 1941) in .410. The chamber will accept a fired 3" shell, so it seems that is has been opened up to fire 3". I took it out to a friend's place this afternoon to fire a few rounds. Wouldn't fire. The primer had only a slight mark. Hmm....

It seemed that the bolt head thread would bottom against the flange on the firing pin and not let the pin ahead enough to dent the primer, and would push the cocking piece back a wee bit. Okay, so I took the firing pin apart. Other than a nasty collection of dirt and old grease/oil, nothing seemed badly worn. The primer end of the pin looks to be in good shape. I checked a Churchill SMLE and it seemed to do the same thing. When I tightened the bolt head into place, it seemed to bottom against the flange and push the cocking piece back a bit, same as the .410.

I re-assembled the firing pin and put the rifle back together, hoping that it was just dirt that caused the ftf. Too late to go out a try it again.

Does anyone have any suggestions about this? I would appreciate any help. Thanks in advance.

.410 rims are thinner than 303 rims. Had the same problem with my .410 SMLE. The fix is to use o rings around the base of the shell thus forcing the base onto the bolt head.
The firing pin should protrude .040 inch or 1.5mm more than that could pierce the primer.

I thought the cases for those guns were built from opened up 303 brass. That would explain the rim thing.

Ah! :D Sure thing, the rim is a fair bit thinner on the shotshell. Well, I will have to stock up on o-rings then , won't I?

Thanks for the quick response! At least I will be able to sleep now.:p

:beerchug:

These are the markings on the old thing:

Lo and behold, the old .410's brother showed up to roost at my place. This new one is chambered to fire the original .303 casings. The fellow sent along a bunch of felt wad cards, plastic wads, plus a supply of lead balls. My buddy and I will have some fun shooting these old fellers!:)

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Originally Posted by kjohn

The chamber will accept a fired 3" shell, so it seems that is has been opened up to fire 3".

Does anyone have any suggestions about this? I would appreciate any help. Thanks in advance.

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Try 2.5 inch cartridges.

However, even if they fire, I have found that due to the bulging of a .410 shotgun cartridge's rim after firing, Ishapore muskets will often fail to extract the fired cartridge from the breech.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I thought the cases for those guns were built from opened up 303 brass. That would explain the rim thing.

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Nope. The cartridges were made from un-necked .303 brass. (As opposed to "opened up".)

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Originally Posted by kjohn

Lo and behold, the old .410's brother showed up to roost at my place. This new one is chambered to fire the original .303 casings. The fellow sent along a bunch of felt wad cards, plastic wads, plus a supply of lead balls. My buddy and I will have some fun shooting these old fellers!:)

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You will need to fire-form some empty .303 brass, because they will have been necked down for use in .303 rifle chambers.

That the flange on the striker bottoms out on and against the threaded part of the bolt head (we call it the tenon.....) is a part of the operation of the bolt called 'LIFT' It is there to ensure that the cocking piece doesn't hit the rear face of the bolt and the striker protrusion is controlled plus a few other things to boot. If you want a more in-depth explanation, then read a technical article about setting up bolts. But in short, so long as you have between .016 and .050" or so of lift while you have 10 degrees of overturn, then all is well

these things are a BLAST to shoot. (pun intended) mine also took 3 inch shot shells. It took me a while but i eventually managed to get what is called a "left and right" in the side by side fraternity. Two clay pigeons launched at the same time WITH a reload in between. You have to hold the second shell in your mouth and spit it out and catch it with the hand that works the bolt so you're catching it at the level of the boltway, makes it fast enough to get the second shell loaded and fired before the clay is out of range. Turning up with it in the first place caused a huge amount of consternation at the clay range in San Francisco. I was at the far end and when people in the office saw me lifting the gun with clays loaded up they started running towards me thinking they were stopping me firing a rifle at a clay pigeon inside the city limits.

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Originally Posted by newcastle

" Turning up with it in the first place caused a huge amount of consternation at the clay range in San Francisco. I was at the far end and when people in the office saw me lifting the gun with clays loaded up they started running towards me thinking they were stopping me firing a rifle at a clay pigeon inside the city limits."

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You Sir are my official Hero for April 2013. That shiat about San Fran. is HI-sterical. Good on you.

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Originally Posted by Beerhunter

Nope. The cartridges were made from un-necked .303 brass. (As opposed to "opened up".)

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Oh, OK. So, opening up brass by fireforming won't work then.

Oh, you say it will? Then what's the difference?? Or are we digging flysh*t out of pepper.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Oh, OK. So, opening up brass by fireforming won't work then.

Oh, you say it will? Then what's the difference?? Or are we digging flysh*t out of pepper.

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At the time, regular 303 brass was un-necked until, after it was filled. (It makes loading Cordite easier.) Then it was necked, and then the bullet fitted.

As I said, the .410 rounds are made from those un-necked .303 cases. You can achieve a similar effect to the original un-necked .303 case by fire-forming .303 cases in a .401 musket.

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Originally Posted by Beerhunter

At the time, regular 303 brass was un-necked until, after it was filled. (It makes loading Cordite easier.) Then it was necked, and then the bullet fitted.

As I said, the .410 rounds are made from those un-necked .303 cases. You can achieve a similar effect to the original un-necked .303 case by fire-forming .303 cases in a .401 musket

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I know all that...

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I know all that...

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Forgive but as you had previously said:

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I thought the cases for those guns were built from opened up 303 brass.

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I was not to know that you knew how they were really made.