I was just wondering if any of you guys have had a chance to see how the CMP AP ammo shoots. Many thanks,
Charlie
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I was just wondering if any of you guys have had a chance to see how the CMP AP ammo shoots. Many thanks,
Charlie
I've posted this on the CMP forum.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie59
The other day I tested some of my M2 AP (AYR 28) against an old 3/8” AR500 steel target. The target was hung at 200 and 100 yards with the back of the target against a wire fence. The target could not swing freely but it did have some give. Rifle used was a M1903 Springfield. The results surprised me. With the exception of one round, the AP did less damage than I expected although the damage to the steel plate was significant compared to non AP ammo. This plate was originally placed at a private shooting range and has withstood thousands of rounds without damage.
Target and Rifle
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ium29JPG-1.jpg
Multiple hits at edge of target. I believe the one pass thru is the result of the plate being slightly softer at the edges, probably a result of the cutting process. The pass thru was the first round fired at 200 yards.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ium29JPG-1.jpg
Multiple hits at edge. Good shot of pass thru.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ium29JPG-1.jpg
Back view of pass thru
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ium29JPG-1.jpg
Hit at 100 yards
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ium29JPG-1.jpg
Multiple hits at center
http://home.comcast.net/~lowryt/pwpi...8Medium%29.JPG
Hit at 200 yards center of target
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ium29JPG-1.jpg
100 and 200 yard splash together center of target (100 yd at 11:00)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ium29JPG-1.jpg
You're right! I'm surprised too! I used to shoot that stuff at the new gongs on our range to break them in and they would always leave holes like the one you indicate. The rest of the holes look like ball. The plates were as thick as yours and hardened too. The AP would put holes in transport truck brake drums shot through the thickest part! Nothing else would do that kind of damage for months. Who makes that cartridge?
The ammo used was M2 AP (AYR lot 28, headstamp 56) made in Norway by NAMMO-Raufoss, recently sold by the CMP. The plate is a target made and sold by the MetalMan. 3/8" AR500 hardened steel.
http://www.themetalman.com/targ_swinger.html
The only way to find out what's inside the AP bullet is to section one. That will tell if it's tungsten core or just a steel penetrator. Both are used these days and loosly called AP.
How would one determine whether it is a tungsten alloy or just a hardened steel penetrator?Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Below is a sectioned of Den 43 30-06 AP. I believe its tungsten for the hacksaw wouldn't cut it.
That would be correct. A file will cut a steel penetrator but not a tungsten penetrator. I have one here that has been used for a metal prick punch without deformation. Now how bout the Norwegian ammo?
I sectioned one of the AYR M2 AP rounds. It looks exactly like the one Skip showed. A file will only scratch up the surface, it does not create a cut in the material. I filed the AR500 plate and the file was able to cut it. The AP core used as a center punch dimpled the plate. The core is magnetic and weighs 5.20 grams or 80.2 grains.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
The core I have here weighs 79.5 grains and is also magnetic. The mystery deepens for me, I don't understand why that AP didn't do more damage to the plate? I know the core came out of a D.A. 51 bullet made for machine gun belts for use in tanks. It was sold off as surplus and most of it went to the US and then back to Canada. I have a quantity of bullets only and still shoot them on occasion.
I was in a club in the 1960's and 70's that received a good deal of AP from DCM. We used to find those steel/tungsten cores around the butts where the rounds had impacted and come apart. My experience was that AP was very accurate... my brother was on the 4th Army ROTC team in the 1960 time frame at Perry and AP was what they used for their long range practice at Fort Hood before going to Perry.
From what I understand, after battle experience in Korea the US military went to AP for two reasons. The first was to penetrate the so called body armour of the Chinese which later turned out to be quilted clothing, and the second was the tungsten bullet although more expensive to produce retained it's energy and accuracy at range. I understand that the vast amount of ammo consumed in M1 rifles was this AP. Later, the same ammo was used for target because of the same qualities.
I believe the standard round during the latter part of WWII was M2 AP as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
I didn't know that. Makes sense if it was more accurate overall and it would give better penetration at distance, better energy retention at target.