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I'm about to start loading for my M1 Carbine and would like recomendations for loads to duplicate the 1975fps M1 Ball loads. I'm interested in having my loads as close to std. Military issue as possible.
If that is a problem then as close as I can get with a common used powder like IMR 4227 (which I have some of already)
So what do you guys like to use and what are your results like?
I have been reloading many years for the .30 carbine. I use the cheap Lee dipper for IMR 4227 and a 110 Gr soft point. I can keep it in the 10" bull at 100 yards from a bench rest.
Thanks Skip I would be looking for actual weighs of the powder. I tend to use a scale on almost all my loads or at a min a very practiced powder charger. do you know how many grains your dipper is dipping?
I would be looking for sub 3" groups at 100 yards to start.
15.0 grains of WW296 with the 110 FMJ is an exact replacement velocity wise. They do not recommend reduced loads, though some load 14.5 grains for 1940 FPS. Even at 15.0 grains, it is 36,000 PSI, well under the 40,000 PSI of the max military load. I shot some 15 grain loads and they were as accurate as the RP 110 FMJs at 1930-40 fps
Mark W.
I am curious, I just want to know, I want to learn...you said you wanted sub 3" groups at 100 yards. Is a carbine capable of that? I read the thread and one man is getting 10" groups at 100 yards, I would think that is the norm.
I would be really excited if I thought I could get 3" groups, have you done this in the past or is this your goal.
I reload for the carbine and am all ears. Thanks for your thoughts
Thumper
I will be following this conversation
In the 80s, I had an ugly Winchester M1 carbine with a flip sight and narrow barrel band (I thought it was ugly then! Ugh). I shot just over 3 inches at 100 from a sandbag with it. I have had several that do 4-5" at 100.
I wish I could SEE well enough to do that. I have a couple of really tight carbines that give me good groups, but I feel that the carbines shoot alot better than me. No wonder so many old guys use scopes on their deer rifles (heading in that direction - SLOWLY).
That is why I'm leaving that scope on my Inland, shoots too good to take off.:nono:
I may be assuming the carbine shoots better then it does. But based on the many years I have shot carbines (I'm 52 and first started shooting my dads carbines at about 12) I would see how the rifle shouldn't if in good condition be able to make a 3" group at 100 yards.Quote:
Originally Posted by thumper
I've been out of range shooting for a while now and I'm in the process of saving up the fee's to join the local range so I guess by the end of August I will know.
The military requirement for accuracy was 4 inch groups at 100 yards. Carbines with good barrels and proper stock fit can do that easily.
You know what they say about assuming something right?
I never really gave it serious thought, but I assumed that a carbine could not shoot that well.
Next trip to the range,[within a coupleof days] I will take one there and sandbag it and see what it can do.
If I shoot within 4-5 inches [or less], you might hear me hoot and holler all the way to your house. LOL:lol:
Well , this winter/spring I took out my 13 carbines and shot / sighted in all of them. No real extream measures were taken for the best accuracy , I shot off a bench with a tool box reat up front I put my hand on , sling was used. Ammo was Winchester WB , PMC , Federal , various LC lots , ( all 110gr ball ) , and handloaded ( 15 gr WW296 ) 110gr FMJ and 103 Gr tracer. The best were 3-inchers or a tad better. The tended to be later era orig. or fresh rebuilds with late sights , and bbl bands with lugs. Prob'ly 5 or 6 would do this. Most would do 4-5 inches including flip sights and type 1 bands. I have one that does 6-inches that I can't seem to do better with. The worst one did 13-15 inches orig. ( rebuilt , M2 conversion) , but a couple of stocks later it was in the 4-5 pile.
Chris
Chris, what was the difference in the stocks? I have a Std Prod MW under 2, that just won't do better than a 10 inch group. Others I have hold a 4-5 and a couple that will get under 4. My Inlands and IBMs do the best and UEFs do the worst. Believe it or not I have a BA barrel 10-43 that is the best.
I have learned one thing, carbines are not the same. I can do better with cast than my Lake City or WCC anytime.
Lee Dipper for the carbine puts out 14gr of 4227.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark W.
FTD, The secret to getting the most out of a carbine for accuracy is the receiver to recoil plate fit. If you want the best possible then you should use a type 3 recoil plate. When the receiver is inserted into the plate the barrel should hang above the barrel channel about a 1/4 of an inch give or take some. The place the hand guard on the stock and secure it to the stock with the barrel band. The type 3 barrel band gives the best support and when you tighten the barrel band screw just make it snug and not tighten it all the way down. Most carbines that don't shoot well do improve with this and in most case quite a bit vetter then they did before.
In my case I thought the full auto bbl was just shot out. When it looked good , I dug deeper. I found my stock had a lot of play in it , the reciever would shift side to side ( yes , side to side) about 1/16 to 1/10 an inch across the recoil plate. I replaced it with an M2 potbelly stock and it went down to about 8 inches. I found that stock allowed front to rear end play , so I replaced it with a second one that tested snug in all directions. That brought it down into the 3-5 range. I found that the closer my carbines were to late specs and good fits , the greater the probility of good 3-inchish groups.
Chris
In my limited experience, for real accuracy and getting the recoil plate to work for you, the stock is the real key. First, forget about the WWII M-1 stocks - as mentioned above they have too much play. I look for a M-2 potbelly. I don't care what the sides LOOK like, I inspect the recoil plate shelf and the bull nose. Everything else in between those two points is space filler. The recoil plate shelf on the stock needs to be clean, UNDAMAGED and not compressed. The bullnose needs to be full, undamaged and not compressed. The band band spring also needs to be in good shape and "bent" at the correct angle. Seat the plate and the metal as is noted on the CMP page. http://www.thecmp.org/pdfs/CMP_Carbine_Notes_2007.pdf
While I love the looks and history of the original issue stocks (especially the highwoods), I keep a few "shooter" M-2 potbellys for the range. Simply give each carbine a different change of clothes when its their turn to go to the range. That way I get some good shooting in at the range while saving on the wear of the historical stocks. I also keep my HD shooters in their potbellies all the time... never know when the big bad wolf will come blow the house down (yes, I did take my pills today).
No one asked but that is my two cents worth...
Some carbines shoot better than others. I was fortunate in getting a good one; a Winchester that I have loaded for with cast bullets. I use the RCBS 120 grain Round nose with a gas check. I size the bullets to .309" and use 13.5 grains of 4227 powder. Other powders will work as well. Cases must be kept trimmed to the correct and uniform length. Grouping off the bench is consistently 3 inches at 100 yards. No leading or problems with the gas port/piston. I put a slight taper crimp on the finished rounds to ensure good feeding. This combination also works well in my Ruger Blackhawk although the muzzle blast is impressive. Jerome Cooper
What is your OAL on that round? Currently I'm doing the same thing. Lee 120gr w/gas ck, sized .309 and 12.5 gr of 2400.
I have been using 14.7 gr of W-296 with a 110 gr FMJ or RN bullet - I backed off from a 15 gr charge with no noticeable change. I also have used 14 gr of 4227 with good results.
Thanks good to knowQuote:
Originally Posted by FTD1167
Thanks Guys lots of real good info coming here. I guess I'm lucky my stock looks like **** but fits the barreled action very well with no noticable play on either end. I've built and beeded a number of rifle and Muzzle loaders stocks in my day and might do some work on this Carbine after I locate a nice Pot belly stock to work off of.
The load info will be very useful I picked up a pound of IMR 4227 and WW 296 to work some loads up with. I'll be shooting a 110gr FMJ, 110gr HP, and 110gr cast copper coated, and working up 3-4 loads for various use. Should be a lot of fun.
My favorite load for .30 carbine is 14 grains of H-110 behind a 110 grain soft nosed hollow point.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...86155689-2.jpg
The type III band and "hanging" it correctly in the recoil lug are keys to accuracy. My Inland Racker has just over a 1 ME, but I improved the group by half putting it in a potbelly and following CMP directions for receiver hanging.
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I killed a deer at almost 100 yards with a broadside heart-lung shot using Wincheter 110 HP. Heck of an exit hole! One shot and it was dead within yards.
I've got a 2.8 Underwood with, believe it or not, a slight ring 1-1/2" back from the muzzle. Can't tell it from the outside though. Anyway, It'll do a five-shot 3/4" group from a bench at 50 yards with Federal Factory 110FMJs and close to that with my handload of 15 gr.296 and a Speer 110FMJ. Got a photo of one of the targets. Oh, it sits in a standard WWII M1 stockset.