L42A1 with unusual fore end?

I have just taken possession of this L42A1. I would be grateful for comments from the experts, especially Peter Laidler.
The fore end is clearly not from a No4 Mk1, yet it is numbered to the rifle. Was substitution of Mk 2 style fore-ends allowed when these rifles were manufactured?

The cheekpiece is a repro. The rifle number is AR10097; note the last digit is lightly struck - Simon ("Service to L42A1 and Enforcers sticky") writes: ""Rifle AR10097 doesn't appear in the records, however there is an AR1009 (could be a typo?) which was part of batch number 48 which consisted of 40 rifles and was sent to store at Donnington on the 30th December 1971".

I'd appreciate any comments about the rifle, especially its originality.

While a Mk2/L39 fore-end will fit and L42, it wasn't like that originally and such a variation was never approved. If it was an approved change (as I've been told by some whom I accept know more than me) then I'd ask a)why they went to all that hassle to retro-convert stockpiles of Mk2 fore-ends back to Mk1 spec for the L42 and b) why it isn't mentioned in the EMER's and c) why isn't the Mk2 type fore-end approved as such in the L42parts list? Just a thought.

PS on that. I'm not an expert by any means. I've dealt with a few and made a point of writing down what I did over the years that's all

Just looking at your serial number that's been over engraved, showing the last '7', this looks to me like a case of several that have gone through the system and once bead blasted, the numbers have become totally indistinct. It happens...... But 20 go into the workshop system, 20 are repaired and 20 come out bearing the serial numbers on the AFG 1045 (the Armourers work sheet for want of a better word.....) paperwork. Re numbering can get quite complex and an Officer (delegated to the workshop ASM) was required to oversee the allocation of a special SA xx Axxxx number

I know of a No4T where the original and almost indistinct number is still (?) but only just visible if you look with a squint on the body but the new number on the butt socket is something different. But it kept a paperwork mad Quartermaster happy

Peter, apart from the fore-end, do you think the rest of the rifle, the scope mounts, the scope and the transit case all look correct, and all belong together? I haven't shown the 19tons stamps which are correct, by the way, or the rear sight cursor, which is also correct. I am certainly no expert, but I certainly hope this is a pukka rifle, since this kit did not come all that cheap!
If authentic rifle, then we have the problem of a wrong Mk 2 type fore-end, stamped with two (indistinct) numbers, one of which looks like the rifle serial number minus the AR prefix.
Could this have been an expedient when it was being sold out of service, possibly the fore-end being b*ggered?

Could you instruct me how I could retro-convert this fore-end back to Mk 1 spec, or is that beyond the skill of a mortal?

Tangential to this thread and for those of you who would like more information on the very early 1971 L42A1's, there's an MKL entry in the United Kingdom section complete with a 109 pic virtual tour of an "all correct" piece.

1971 L42A1 Enfield Sniper Rifle

Regards,
Doug

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobD

Could you instruct me how I could retro-convert this fore-end back to Mk 1 spec, or is that beyond the skill of a mortal?

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Rob,

If you're passing my neck of the woods, I can show you an L39 forend thats been converted to Mk1 for an L42. Would probably be more original and a better idea to save your forend for a needy L39, and make a new forend out of a walnut No4 Mk1 forend.

I wrote an article about L42 fore-ends for this forum a year or so back and wrote a little cheap book too. Have a browse through both, chat to thunderbox and come back if you're hell bent on converting what you have. Better to start afresh with a bog standard No4 Mk1 type fore-end. At least that way, when you router the barrel groove you won't end up with a heap of pure butchered tat (see article.....) that you can snap with a finger

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobD

I'd appreciate any comments about the rifle, especially its originality.

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That chamber stick looks like a Ma Parker special to me. :-) (The only part that I feel qualified to comment on.)

And what happened to: "I'm going to concentrate on South African stuff in future"?

On the 5th photo, am I imagining it or can a No.4 Mk 1/2 be made out? My weary eyes can see it :)

Our chamber sticks were made by P-H and later, by a little firm (in Brighton I seem to remember.....) called JETAGE

Can I have the details of the previous rifle/tele in the chest Rob, visible under the felt pen scrawl

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

I wrote an article about L42 fore-ends for this forum a year or so back and wrote a little cheap book too. Have a browse through both, chat to thunderbox and come back if you're hell bent on converting what you have. Better to start afresh with a bog standard No4 Mk1 type fore-end. At least that way, when you router the barrel groove you won't end up with a heap of pure butchered tat (see article.....) that you can snap with a finger

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Here's the fomal MKL articles Peter is referring to ... :thup:

The L42 and 39 Fore-ends

The fore-end and handguards of the L42

Regards,
Doug

RobD I am no expert but I have an unhealthy interest in the L42’s, and this had led me to look at a fair few. I feel that the rifle looks ok and original as well as the metal work; I feel that the scope looks ok as well and I would tend to feel that the rifle butt is correct (although probley not an S51 butt).
I agree with PL the Mk.2 fore end looks, to have been added later and not in service. IF I were you then I would get hold of an Mk.1 walnut fore end, and FIT it to the RIFLE (as shown in PL article). This with lots of hard work and linseed oil, will put money back into your investment and more importantly leave this rifle working for another generation to admire. Excellent find I hope putting the old girl back to her form glory goes well.
PS. I at the moment am doing some research into the L42’s Transit chests, if you would be so kind to publish some more photo’s that would very much appreciated.
DanL96a1

The chest was developed from the basic design submitted by a bloke called WO2 Steve Stevens of the SASC who set out the design following his ideas on the RM sniping wing at Lympstone. He wanted a tight chest that had a bit more room for everything that the sniper wanted. A quick mock-up was made at the carpenters shop by the chippie called 'John' (nobody remembers his second name but I'm trying to find out........). It was approved and put out to tender.

Well, I am hugely relieved that the basic rifle has withstood your collective scrutiny. I will certainly try to sort out the for-end in due course, first I'll see how it shoots.
Any comments on the pattern of the sling swivel on the trigger guard front screw? It is not the same as the 4T swivel; it has the EFD monogrammes (as also seen on the side of the receiver in front of 71) but no broad arrow.
Beerhunter: yes, about concentrating on South African collecting ... you are right, I hate myself for this. But this one followed me home.

RobD, This link might help you with pictures of L42's sling swivel

L42a1 Trigger Guard Loop Survey

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobD

Beerhunter: yes, about concentrating on South African collecting ... you are right, I hate myself for this. But this one followed me home.

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I hope that it follows you to Short Siberia very soon. It looks jolly good to me. (BTW, I have some spare RG 7.62 that needs a new home.)

Rob,
I suspect your swivel is probably a post-war job made for the No8 rifle. Peter will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe as far as the army is concerned it is the same part as the original wartime version, but they are readily identifiable by the EFD mark & by the fact that they are a little larger & more angular than the WW2 produced examples....

FWIW I concur with the others......correct rifle in which the last digit of the originally engraved number (7) is still visible behind the re-stamped number, giving an apparent extra digit.
If you need a good used walnut forend to router out then let me know......

ATB

RobD, I took the liberty of adding your lack of trigger guard loop to the survey, and made a link back to this thread in the "L42 Photos" thread as well. So, don't lose those pictures! Or add 'em on the other thread.

L42 Photos

Hello Peter

You ask "Can I have the details of the previous rifle/tele in the chest, visible under the felt pen scrawl"..

It's probably (difficult to be certain):
Ser No 31625
Sight No 27999
T/Sight No 12699

Thought it was and just needed clarification. Unusual in that it was an L1A2 tele sight that I thought that I'd come across and made a note of before. L1A2's made from converted No32 Mk2/1's.

I wonder who owns rifle 31625 now and whether it still has Mk2/1-L1A2 12699

I have a couple of spare L42 forends here if in need. They are both only fitted but never numbered or marked in any way. They are also both converted from Mk.2 back to Mk.1 specification. Contact me in my shop for details at bdlltd@bellsouth.net. Brian

Thanks, Brian, I shall be in touch.

Brain Dick has a spare L42A1 fore-end which he is sending me and EFD are sending me a beech cheekpiece.
Three minor Q's:
- Am I right in thinking that the correct screws for the cheekpiece are ordinary steel countersunk wood screws, 8-gauge, the front one inch-and-a-quarter, the rear one inch-and-a-half?
- Would the cheekpiece have been stained or left in beech? The buttstock is walnut.
- Where can I get hold of the dark green 1 inch webbing to replace the transit chest handles, which have worn away?

Why not cut up an old enfield rifle sling

Trigger Guard Screw / Swivel:

Does it have the correct seating plate (16) to spread the load by the trigger guard screw or is it fitted with the collar (25)?

Simon, it has a seating plate. And a big thick piece of metal it is. Does that mean something? What did the Envoys, Enforcers and L39s have?

The PLATE, seating was a means of saving L42 fore-ends that had been previously crushed under the screw. By milling the area out and inserting the plate, it effectively spread the load imparted by the trigger guard and screw over a greater area. It was one of those ideas that was good in both practice and theory so in the interests of standardisation it was adopted across the board in all subsequent fore-ends. It follows that not all L42's will have the seating plate. But you can't have a seating plate AND collar. One or the other..........

I'm not sure that it was adopted across the board for the L39

The seating plate was not a new idea. Fultons p[atented the idea before the war as I understand it and although the other rifle specialists wanted to use the idea, they couldn't. Enfield/the Government didn't worry about such trivialities as property rights and patents and told Webley and Sterling as much. So they just copied the idea anyway. But they were concerned when the patents and property rights belonged to them and told Lithgow as much when they wished to convert their own L4 guns................. But you get my drift!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobD

Brain Dick has a spare L42A1 fore-end which he is sending me and EFD are sending me a beech cheekpiece.
Three minor Q's:
- Am I right in thinking that the correct screws for the cheekpiece are ordinary steel countersunk wood screws, 8-gauge, the front one inch-and-a-quarter, the rear one inch-and-a-half?
- Would the cheekpiece have been stained or left in beech? The buttstock is walnut.
- Where can I get hold of the dark green 1 inch webbing to replace the transit chest handles, which have worn away?

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Yes Rob. The screws are No8's in steel, countersunk; 1.25" in front & 1.5" at rear. Most beech cheekpieces have darkened over the years with linseed, dirt & age, but there's always a colour discrepancy to some degree as you'll never get beech to look like walnut.....but that's just the way they were.
ATB.

Rob

If you want to compare your rifle with other L42s:

You could come to the Field Firing Match on 19th February hosted by the Herts & Essex Shooting Association near Braintree in Essex.

There will be two L42A1s in the exhibition on the No4 series of rifles. One will be in the transit case the other will be set up with the night sight.

There will also be a number of rare trials rifles on display such as the pre-production No8, infantry & match rifles. Alongside this will be an exhibition of Section 7 pistols & revolvers.