Anyone seen this? no interest to myself but thought may be to any Enforcer fans.
guntrader.co.uk - Enfield 7.62x51 Enforcer Bolt Action Second Hand Rifle
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Anyone seen this? no interest to myself but thought may be to any Enforcer fans.
guntrader.co.uk - Enfield 7.62x51 Enforcer Bolt Action Second Hand Rifle
Not a bad price.
Ex Devon & Cornwall Police.
I asked D&C Police (under the Freedom Of Information Act) what happened to their Enforcers and was told they were all guillotined.
Thats three ex D&C Enforcers I now know off.
Alan, do you want to tell them their guillotine is broken?
That is a very nice example of this underrated rifle. I wish I still had mine, but I might get another chance at another one day.
That's within 50 of mine (serial number). Nice.
Just shows what a complete farce the FoI Act is, and also the integrity of most UK Police forces....Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield
Alan, I believe this one also may be ex-D&C.
The "Almost Evil Enforcer", SN#665
Attachment 20232
Hal..........., is that real engraving on there.........? It looks like, well............ I can't see how anyone would have got away with that at Enfield
Thats another of the Devon & Cornwall Police Enforcers that was guillotined (or was it ?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal O'Peridol
Quite a few chopped rifles had their numbered woodsets, scopes and sights salvaged and sold off...... There are a few "phoenixes" out there....Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield
That's an interesting notion Thunderbox and AdeE. You might read my comment under the thread Enforcer renumbering by Cold Zero. Maybe this ought to be looked at in more depth especially if some of those now 'ghost' numbers now reside abroad. It's got me thinking.................... especially seeing Hal's dreadful engraving. As one who has used many TH panto engravers and made several cock-ups to boot, it looks as though the body has been continually slipping on the slide table.
Give me a day or so to get a better looking close up.
This particular rifle was purchased out of the UK by a Movie Armourer in BC Canada. I was in his shop when it and another arrived.
He sold me this one later, his son was into "black" rifles instead of more traditional wood and steel.
Hi AlanQuote:
Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield
I have 644, Simon kindly looked it up for me and it is an Ex D&C ( sent out 17th August 1982) I was lucky to have purchased it last year from Big D.
Is that four or is it one of the three you already mentioned ?
I have 644 as being in Scotland in 2009. So - now its moved to Norfolk.Quote:
Originally Posted by andya1thomas
The D&C Police Enforcers I now have records of that survived the guillotine are :
214
262
265
266
644
Yes that’s right Big D was from north of the boarder and I was very lucky to see it for sale on this forum. It’s a great weapon shoots well even in my feeble hands, I can’t see me ever parting with it or my No 4 T come to that, although I still have a foot in Norfolk I am now located mainly in Warwickshire at the moment due to work and wife but for how long who knows with the current economic climate, you just have to go where the work takes you.
Big jump in the numbers from 266 -644 what happened to the ones in between I wonder?
Rather than start a new thread... I know people are forming lists of those around and there's a couple for sale at present one at Arundel:
Enfield Enforcer 7.62mm Sniper Rifle - Live Firearms and Shotguns
Number 008 - looks OK to me engraving wise, but minus the scope/rings and 5E4 sight, along with horrid sterling mag.
And also there's one on guntrader - all matching including the scope, so it says.
guntrader.co.uk - Enfield 7.62x51 ENFORCER Bolt Action Second Hand Rifle
Cant see the engraving on the one on Guntrader but that one does look the business.
How many Enforcers did D&C have?
I have 329 collected by them on 7/2/1974
Someone has been a naughty boy(or girl) (s)
The number looks like 109.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigduke6
Yes, I think it's 109 - Service for L42A1, Enforcer, Envoy and L39A1 Owners.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cold_Zero
Alas, no free slots!.
It appears Devon and Cornwall had 30 in total!
I understand that Enforcer 545 was also issued to the Devon & Cornwall Police.
For the record, that rifle is now in South Africa.
It appears that 545 was sent to Exeter Police (1 of 4), which is Devon and Cornwall! Do you know by chance the conversion date?
I understand that someone is writing down the history of these Enforcers............ Or is that you now Colin?
If you are going to write it all down, we have a bit of the pre-enforcer history or certainly the man who told the Home Office what the Police definately didn't need, what they did need and what they could have. Not all the same thing!
Not me, its just good timing that I'm in Leeds at the Royal Armouries! Can just go ask a nice man in the Library! But i,m only here till tuesday Lunchtime!!
Sorry, do not have any details on the conversion date of 545 and only know that it left the factory on the 7th November, 1979. I would greatly appreciate further historical information on the rifle if available.
It should be marked with probably 76 on the side, just after the EFD mark!
The date after the Enfield mark is 76.
Enforcer 545 was a Devon & Cornwall rifle and was despatched for the attention of "Inspector T Brigham"
I have tried to trace this individual but no luck.
According to the D&C Police records it was destoyed by Guillotine - unless someone is cloning the D&C rifles this is the 5th example (I know of) of a D&C rifle that still 'exists'.
That's an interesting comment Al....... Especially given the fact that it is an offence to state '............something that is not true or which you do not believe to be right or correct.....' in the FofI guidlines for managers charged with this information. Maybe someone ought to investigate
Call me an old cynic but I often have my doubts about these phoenix Enforcers
added later......... Just been reminded that the words of the FofI declaration should read '.....I believe to be false or do not believe to be true'. Same meat of course! But if these rifles have seemingly re-appeared after being torched then the bleedin' obvious in my psyche tells me that somethings a bit fishy
PS 129 got the chop today too!
Here is the actual responce from D & C Police in reply to my FOI request :
1) How many Enfield Enforcer rifles were purchased between 1969 and 1995 and what were their serial numbers?
Devon & Cornwall Constabulary do not hold any recorded information relating to this part of your request. However, It is believed that the Force, between 1969 and 1995, purchased 15 - 20 Enfield Enforcer rifles.
2) Are there any Enfield Enforcer rifles still in service or in storage and what are their serial numbers?
There are no Enfield Enforcer Rifles still in service. There is one Enfield Enforcer rifle serial No. 214 held in the Armoury, for demonstration purposes.
3) What make and model of telescopic sights were they fitted with and the serial numbers of the scopes?
The rifles were fitted with 'Pecar variable 4 - 10' telescopic sights. The only records available are serial Nos. A10382, A06532 and 72647 / 329.
4) By what method where any Enfield Enforcer rifles disposed of ? (i.e. destroyed, sold to the civilian market etc.)
Apart from the one remaining Enforcer mentioned in response to question 2, all were destroyed by Force guillotine as surplus stock.
It is also interesting to note that "Sussex" Police reply to my FOI stated that they did not purchase any Enforcers - only Envoys. The Enfield sales ledger shows they purchased 8 Enforcers.
It is obviously questionable if these replys are made in good faith, are just mistakes or are directly meant to mislead.
Peter - do you mean that Enforcer 129 'got the chop' ? (This is an ex Glasgow Police one). If so I can add it to my database. What happens to the PH5e/4, the scope, the safety etc. etc. ?
ooops, sorry, it was an L39 that got the chop
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield
Enforcer 545 belonged to LERA member and then passed through my hands on its way to its new owner.
As you know, I am extremely sceptical of "twin ovoid" and "sloping engraving" Enforcers but, to my eye (and by reference to the four other Enforcers I also have), #545 appeared perfectly legit.
I would say that 545 is the highest number Enforcer I've seen which seemed "right"; all the ones I've seen above that have looked a bit iffy in the detail....
So what do people think the highest "REAL" legitimate serial numbered Enforcer is? Remembering Enfield sent no 762 to Bangkok in 1983!!
I had sn. 767 which was a rifle assembled from original parts by Charnwood Ordnance in the 1980's. The markings on the receiver were legit so I guess it can be considerd as "real". It now resides with a collector in the USA. As a matter of interest, it was a conversion of a Savage No.4 M1/3.
Just being the devils advocate Brian and you know my views of pheonix Enforcers, but if No 767 was assembled elsewhere than Enfield could it be possible that a Mk1/3 body was engraved '....elsewhere than Enfield'.
How many other Mk1/3 Enforcers are there out there I ask. Do you know of any more XL39
I suppose anything is possible but the story was that the barreled actions were traded to CO as spares along with the small parts when Enfield made it's move to Nottingham. Then they were assembled at CO. The bolts were not numbered making them easily distinguished from legit issued rifles. I've had a half dozen or so Enforcers through here over the years including well used ones complete with the matching Pecar scopes. The body markings all looked pretty much the same to me so I was never suspect of them. Considering they were fairly cheap and the market in England at the time was small, I really don't see why they would bother to fake them back then. Just my opinion.
Good afternoon Brian........ I knew that'd get you up!
Good afternoon to you Peter. Beautiful day here. There'll be range time in the mix this weekend. Wish you were here!
I can remember seing one Long Branch a while ago but cannot remember the number, assuming it was a 1/3 and not a 1/2! (that would be a rarity)
Is it this one ?Quote:
Originally Posted by XL39E1
It was for sale at a an RFD in NE England who had a 'shed full' of Eforcer parts (barrels, actions, furniture etc etc.) that were purchased at the same time as Charnwood purchased their 'bits' (when Enfield closed down)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSCN1824-1.jpg
Thats the one!
Well the picture anyway!!
You mean that crushed/damaged/distorted front trigger guard screw mounting screw spigot is how the factory would have unbreech and breech up. As in using some home made body wrench that imparts the torque onto the spigot instead of the shoulders............... That standard of slip shod work wouldn't be acceptable from a first term apprentice. Nope........., call me an old cynic but to be brutally frank and honest with you, that isn't the standard of the factory nor the markings of standard factory/Base workshop breeching up kit. That spigot has to be protected at all costs.
And has that side been milled off right down to the back or is that something to do with the light? If it has been skimmed, I'll mentiuon something else too..............
That looks more like a scrap body that someone has used to test out their new "Enforcer" engraving method. Were Enfield intending to linish off the old Long Branch number before or after refinishing the action.....?
I did take a picture of 706 in 2010 though, With barrel, scope and wood attached.
Attachment 31853
Cant remember the L/B serial though!
Assuming that 'your' No 706 is the same one that I posted (which I thought went 'over the pond' ) then the LB serial number is on the butt socket. (66 or maybe 65L2412)
Just had a squint at my enforcer - and, as well as being of the famed 'wonky' engraving variety, the 706s on display here, whether the same rifle or not, have a completely different m/m version.
These two 706 look like the same gun! its the m/m marking that gives it away! the first m looks only half engraved!
I have pictures of at least twenty 1980s rifles and they ALL have the same wonky engraving, I actually overlaped a dozen or so in photoshop and they are all wonky to the same degree!
Hi Xl - sorry if my poorly constructed sentence was misinterpreted - I meant the m/m was very different to my rifle - not between the two pics of 706.
There do seem to be a LOT of the wonky ones out there - I pointed out one before in this thread: Wonky Enforcer engravings that one made it into Skennerton's Small Arms Identification Series (Enforcer No 748). However the m/ms are fully formed on that one, unlike 706.
Maybe the 80s ones were just wonky?