1910 Erfurt K98

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_4788-1.jpgI recently picked up a 1910 Erfurt K98. I must apologise that I did not take enough pre photos (sorry Patrick, Badger et al). I washed the stock and removed a lot of black crud from the stock. The barrel was very rough and dark looking with a 5mm hole. At first glance the bore looked beyond redemption, after a good deal of cleaning it looks reasonable, and 8mm.

The stock had been repaired with a brass sheet where it was broken completely through. I re-enforced this with metal rods and acrabond, as well as the previously used brass. There was very little rust, all parts seem to have matching serial numbers.

I am now oiling and "boning" the stock. I did not have BLO but I did have a good amount of tung oil which has done very good services on sporting rifles for me.

I will post photos when the rifle is complete. If any of you well informed folks notice anything unique in the markings I would love to hear your comments.

I assume from the vintage that this rifle has the .323 bore. I will check dimensions before firing. I will welcome comments on this as well.
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Not a major restore like the Argentine rolling block (a truly epic post thanks guys:clap:) just a bit of elbow grease and some love. More photos to follow when complete. hope y'all enjoy. GRF

Eagerly awaiting the post-rebuild photos, and range results!
More detail shots are always good, too. Just don't be like me and forget to photograph the entire carbine! :)

Everything is cleaned, oiled and back together. The wood was quite dry and absorbed a good amount of the tung oil. If I was clever I would have weighed the rifle before and after.

I slugged the bore with lead "worm weights" and as expected it was .323. The lead weights worked very well especially with the pointed front the worm weights have. The action closes with slight pressure on a fully resized 8X57 case, therefore I assume we do not have excessive head space. Do the cognosente here think I need to have this checked by a gun smith before firing? I am inclined to think she is in fine form and range ready; however I would appreciate comments. I am planning on using reloads which replicate WW2 velocities and pressures. again comments on this are welcomed.

I would also like to know the meaning of the wee eagles (I assume) found on the rifle in a few places, so again please comments are appreciated.

I have repeated some pictures which were shown earlier as I was able to get a better photo. Hope y'all enjoy. GRF

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A very nice example of a type of rifle of which most examples were bashed about in WWI. Matching numbers, clear markings - and an obviously shootable bore - you are lucky!

The eagles are proof marks.

14.A.F.2.125.
= Badisches Fussartillerie (State of Baden, Foot artillery (i.e. not mounted)), 2nd Batallion, Rifle No. 125

As to shooting, you can, of course, have it checked out by a gunsmith. But unless he is what people West of the Big Pond would call "milsurp-savvy" you may be wasting your money. It is often overlooked that such rifles were a) built decades before SAAMI and even CIP were set up, and b) as a result, some of the standards appear to have been derived post-factum, and just do not match real rifles well enough to make a verdict based on modern gauges.


As with every one of the Mausers that I have fired myself - and that covers from first to last - I would check the head clearance - that is the actual fore-and-aft play of an actual cartridge in the actual rifle.


I have described the method before in this and other forums. Take a yard length of 6mmx1 or 1/4x26 or similar threaded brass rod, and two nuts. Insert a sized but empty case into the rifle and close the bolt. Insert the rod into the barrel, right down until it sits on the inside of the cartridge base. Now run down the two nuts until they sit nicely (NOT locked) on the muzzle, without lifting the rod (keep the rod pressed down in the case while adjusting the nuts). Use a felt pen to make a witness mark across both nuts.

Open the bolt, remove the cartridge case, and use a pencil to push the case in as far as is will go (finger pressure, not rammed!).

Now comes the fiddly bit. Hold the pencil firmly against the cartridge and with the other hand, making sure that the rod is on contact with the case, run down the nut nearest the muzzle until it just touches the muzzle WITHOUT DISTURBING THE OUTER NUT. Apologies for shouting, but this really is the awkward part of the operation.


The witness mark on the inner nut has now shifted. Knowing the thread pitch and observing how much the inner nut has rotated, you can calculate the movement. This movement is the play or "head clearance" for that type of cartridge in that rifle.


Anything up to 15 thou is quite OK. Up to 20 thou. will still work, unless the firing pin a.k.a. striker is badly worn. More then that will probably cause erratic ignition. Cases will stretch a bit on first firing, but a basic rule for all these old service rifles is ONLY use NECK-SIZED case that were fired in THAT rifle. This also improves accuracy!


And please note: the original Kar. 98 was hard to shoot, because it was lighter than the Gew. 98. (The later K98k was noticeably heavier.) Light loads are good for your purse, shoulder and rifle!


Patrick
:wave:

Mr Chadwick, I will grab some threaded brass rods and 2 nuts and do the test as advised. Thank you for your valuable input, especially the meaning of the alpha-numerics on the butt plat. My son and I shoot a Yugo model 48 (I believe) with WW2 velocity / pressure reloads without difficulty. Out of respect for her advanced age we will run light loads through the Erfurt. Once cases are fire-formed I use neck sized only for all of the milsurp reloading I do.

Thank you for your input on this and the many other projects you have advised upon; you are a great contributor to those of us getting started, thank you again sir. GRF

Thank you Patrick! A good friend got one in a pack of three Mausers and i´ll do the check on his Karabiner too. Good to have you!:thup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

Now comes the fiddly bit. Hold the pencil firmly against the cartridge and with the other hand, making sure that the rod is on contact with the case, run down the nut nearest the muzzle until it just touches the muzzle WITHOUT DISTURBING THE OUTER NUT. Apologies for shouting, but this really is the awkward part of the operation.

The witness mark on the inner nut has now shifted. Knowing the thread pitch and observing how much the inner nut has rotated, you can calculate the movement. This movement is the play or "head clearance" for that type of cartridge in that rifle.

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If you could maintain light forward pressure on the case, using perhaps a bit of open cell foam or dacron (or an assistant), could you not directly measure at the muzzle without disturbing either nut? Just ease the feeler gage between the nut and muzzle? Perhaps even easier with the addition of a washer or two? Just pondering.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jmoore

Just ease the feeler gage between the nut and muzzle?

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Yes, of course you could. I'm just one for creative laziness!
In the next "5-year plan" I'm going to make up one with a dial gauge and a sliding clamp, honest! But in the meantime, I'm getting on so well with my quick 'n dirty method ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

[/FONT][/SIZE]14.A.F.2.125.
= Badisches Fussartillerie (State of Baden, Foot artillery (i.e. not mounted)), 2nd Batallion, Rifle No. 125

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Patrick a good post with good information but I must say that the "2" in the translation of the regimental stands for "Company", not "Bataillon". so "14.A.F.2.125." would read 14 Regiment, 2nd Company, weapon #125. Of course, as you say, the 14th Fußartillerie-Regiment of was indeed from Baden as you say and it was part of the XIV Armee Korps at the beginning of the Great War.

Thank you for the additional information. GRF

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gew8805

"Company", not "Bataillon"

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Your are quite correct. That was pure sloppiness on my part:o

Patrick
:wave:

Not at all Patrick, you gave excellent information - as always. I enjoy reading your posts, they contain accurate information.

Gentlemen, I loaded some rounds for the old girl. Very light charges or Varget using 200g Speer Hot-cor and 200g Seirra Matchking bullets. All loads show vertical stringing leading me to believe that I may need to remove a small pad of epoxy resulting from the repair which may be causing upward pressure. Groups were shot at 50 yards; I am sure better eyes would do better. Perhaps the vertical stringing is my difficulty positioning the front sight in the notch consistently?

I am going to investigate getting some 200g cast lead bullets and load some very light rounds.

Please see below for photos of the 2 groups, again the distance was 50 yardshttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_5209-1.jpg

The group to the left is the 200g Speer bullet with 42g Varget POI centre of tearget, the picture to the right is Seirra Macthking 200g with 42g Varget POI base of target. 42g Varget shot better than 41 g and I felt no need to test 43g Varget. The rear sight was set at 600 metres for this shooting.

More pictures and details when I find the time to load and test more. Hope y'all enjoy. GRF :)

---------- Post added at 09:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 AM ----------

Oops; forget to mention I am surprised how well a gun of this age with a worn (but still shootable) bore shoot the boat tailed bullets. Sorry it has taken long to get a range report in. GRF

---------- Post added at 09:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 AM ----------

Oops; forget to mention I am surprised how well a gun of this age with a worn (but still shootable) bore shoot the boat tailed bullets. Sorry it has taken long to get a range report in. GRF