03A3 Stamped Trigger Guard Question

I have seen references to 03A3 stamped trigger guards which have a metal pad welded in near the front guard screw location. The purpose of the pad is to distribute the load so the edges of the guard are not forced into the wood thereby changing the bedding.

The T.G. on my 03A3 does not have this pad and the edges of the guard are embedded maybe .050" into the stock.

This rifle has no barrel bedding tension at the front and will not shoot groups.

QUESTION: Was this welded in support pad an factory engineering change or a modification done by armorers for shooting teams?

Thanks

Jim

The pad was a factory design change to alleviate the problem you describe in your rifle.

J.B.

Thank you kindly.

Seems I will be spending time a gun shows rummaging through boxes of Springfield parts.

Regards

Jim

John,
When did Remington and Smith-Corona add the pads in production?
Thanks!

This may be a dumb question and if so I am sure someone will inform me of such.
But, why couldn't you just find a washer that was just the right size and place it between the guard and stock with the screw running through it? If you are looking for "authentic" or are trying to keep your rifle legal for matches of course the washer idea is out. But, to simply tighten up the fit I fail to see why this would not work.

daveboy

Daveboy makes a point although it may take several washers. An alternate would be to make a spacer and place it behind the guard screw hole. Make it think enough so the guard screw tightens up firmly.

Also check the wood under the tang. The 1903 stock was designed to give 4-8 lbs upward pressure on the fore end tip to promote accuracy. If the pressure is less than this, check the wood under the tang to see if it is compressed. (It compressed with use & time). You should be able to pull the wood away from the barrel with your fingers & see it snap back when released.

If there is no upward pressure by the stock to the barrel, add a metal shim, like a thin washer, under the tang and around the guard screw. This will have the effect of pushing the barrel into the forearm tip. Think of the front guard screw as the fulcrum or pivot. The shims under the tang allow the barreled receiver to pivot down, increasing forearm pressure. Remington made special shims just for this purpose. The were D shaped with a hole in the middle for the guard screw. The belly of the D fit under the tang. The shims were .030" thick. The shim had two points, like brads, one on each side, to bite into the wood to keep it in place. When stripping CMP 1903/A3 rifles, you'd occasionally find 1 and sometimes two of these shims (piggyback) under the tang.

Attachment 26941

Also, tighten the forward guard screw first; the rear one last & not as tight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bobinmich

John,
When did Remington and Smith-Corona add the pads in production?
Thanks!

---

On 2 Sep 43, the Chief of Ordnance ordered Springfield Armory to prepare a revised trigger guard drawing showing the pad.

On 23 Sep 43, the Chief of Ordnance ordered Springfield Armory to distribute the revised trigger guard drawing.

On 29 Oct 43, the Chief of Ordnance ordered Springfield Armory to change the dimensions of the trigger guard pad as requested by Remington.

Does that answer your question?

J.B.

---------- Post added at 11:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 PM ----------

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daveboy

This may be a dumb question and if so I am sure someone will inform me of such.
But, why couldn't you just find a washer that was just the right size and place it between the guard and stock with the screw running through it? If you are looking for "authentic" or are trying to keep your rifle legal for matches of course the washer idea is out. But, to simply tighten up the fit I fail to see why this would not work.

daveboy

---

Do NOT place a washer over the front trigger guard bushing with the screw running through it. The washer will obstruct tightening the trigger guard and make the bedding problem much worse!!!!

A better solution is to place a small hardwood pad between the front bushing and magazine well which simulates the metal pad added in late '03-A3 production.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

Thanks for the information. By what date do you think the revised parts reached production?

I do not know how rare or expensive the "padded" trigger guards are but you could buy one to replace your original guard and remain legal for matches asnd in configurtion while correcting your problem. Just a thought.
Just a thought

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bobinmich

thanks for the information. By what date do you think the revised parts reached production?

---

10-43.

J.b.

[/COLOR]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cosine26

I do not know how rare or expensive the "padded" trigger guards are but you could buy one to replace your original guard and remain legal for matches asnd in configurtion while correcting your problem. Just a thought.
Just a thought

---

Cosine26

I have commenced the search for a trigger guard asy with the pad. A few years ago the most gun shows had a table or two with piles of parts for US GI weapons. Been to two shows lately and no vendors with large quantities of GI parts.

I suppose the fuel expense has exceeded the profit margins for selling little bits and pieces.

Regards

Jim

Jim
You are correct. I have not been to many gun shows recently but I ws astounded by the cost of surplus GI parts. I suppose that it is because none have been made for many years and the supply is drying up. The old DCM source is gone (sold or disposed of as scrap ,I suppose). Some of the things that collectors now look for were once discarded as scrap. In the 1950's stamped trigger guards were replace by milled trigger guards for a very minimal cost through the DCM. Many of the surplus 03A3's were converted to "sporters" and many of the (now) desirable parts were discarded.

a gusseted trigger guard likely wont change your rifles grouping issue.
chances are you have other issues, stock fit, barrel wear, ect..
common issues with military bolt action rifles, all the ones iv delt with come with stock bearings...{bushings} installed, most have them front and back action screws, if they are loose, missing ect, they will let the action move in the stock while firing, tightening, trimming , or replacing them will do more to improve the rifles shooting then a {padded} trigger guard.
the gusset sits below the metal, and unless you over tighten the screws, wont make contact with the wood.
iv seen many A3 stamped guard cracked in that area from being removed or abused, likely this is why they added the gusset to prevent the guard from cracking, rather then accuracy.

---------- Post added at 07:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 PM ----------

[/COLOR]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kirk

Also check the wood under the tang. The 1903 stock was designed to give 4-8 lbs upward pressure on the fore end tip to promote accuracy. If the pressure is less than this, check the wood under the tang to see if it is compressed. (It compressed with use & time). You should be able to pull the wood away from the barrel with your fingers & see it snap back when released.

If there is no upward pressure by the stock to the barrel, add a metal shim, like a thin washer, under the tang and around the guard screw. This will have the effect of pushing the barrel into the forearm tip. Think of the front guard screw as the fulcrum or pivot. The shims under the tang allow the barreled receiver to pivot down, increasing forearm pressure. Remington made special shims just for this purpose. The were D shaped with a hole in the middle for the guard screw. The belly of the D fit under the tang. The shims were .030" thick. The shim had two points, like brads, one on each side, to bite into the wood to keep it in place. When stripping CMP 1903/A3 rifles, you'd occasionally find 1 and sometimes two of these shims (piggyback) under the tang.

---

Kirk

Excellent info on shimming under the tang.

This rifle is in near new condition - except for the fact it will not group. It has near zero load on the barrel at the forend. I will get that corrected and go from there.

Regards

Jim

I just put a milled trigger guard on my 1903A3 Rem and a Krieger CMP legal match barrel. Its all stock and legal for CMP matchs. The milled trigger guard&mag housing feed better and offer a stiffer paltform in that area. Just my thoughts on the subject. I may put a milled barrel band on the front to.

keep in mind when you install a 1903 bayonet lug on a A3, you will have to trim the handguard back about an inch, as the A3 guard is made to go under the stacking band.

Will leave stock stamped A3 front band , do not want to cut no wood. Thanks for info.

Re: Fitting 1903 Springfield Upper Band/Bayonet Lug To 1903 Handguard: Recently performed this very alteration to a friend's 1903A3. Just required removing a small amount of wood from 1903A3 handguard lip which slips under 1903 style milled band. Lip on M/1903A3 handguard is considerably longer than 03 handguard lip. Removed maybe 1/16th- 3/32" inch or so of excess lip to make it fit perfectly. No real sweat at all to accomplish with a sandpaper wrapped around a file. Make a few passes with file and reassemble til you reach the sweet point. No other alteration required. And the 03A3 handgurd will still fit correctly should you elect to reattach the original pattern components.