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What can you tell me about my new Winchester (lots of pictures)
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Even with it being import maked, seeing some of those markings and the hammer, I think that was a very good price.
Now clean the lint out of the barrel. :lol:
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First, good job with your pictures. You have an early Winchester with the typical post war barrel band and rear sight changes. It is a Bavarian return imported by INTRAC near where I am in Tennessee. If real, you have an early dogleg hammer that was usually replaced when the carbine was rebuilt if not sooner. The stock is an Inland low wood. I don't see a mark on the hand guard, but that doesn't mean it's not there. The bottom of the trigger guard has the number stamped into it showing what unit used it. Overall you have a nice gun with an interesting history.
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Nothing wrong with a dogleg hammer. It is much more valuable. The hammer change was made primarily to improve the trigger pull on the carbine, but it is functionally fine.
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I can't tell if that's oil or two hammer marks on the housing?
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JimF,
Looks like 2 hammer strikes to me... Straight and Dogleg.
Wonder when the Dogleg would have been put back in? Nice to have though. Even looks like it might have the 22 coil spring with it.
NSMI,
Hand Guard looks to be a WRA and may be a Bullnose profile, hard to see from the pics, with no side or straight on views.
Also couldn't see a pic of the HG from the rear to see how deep the sighting groove is.
Many of the early WRA HG's weren't marked with the small W.
By looking at this first picture you'll see how deep the groove is, leaving the wood thin in the bottom groove (AKA a Type I). Deep Groove with 2 Rivets.
These tended to crack so as production went along the makers beefed up the wood in the groove, now called a Type II HG, Shallow Sighting Groove with 2 Rivets.
Your HandGuard shows the 2 circular milling scars common on WRA HG's. The outer circle, seeming to always over cut the inner circle.
Should look for a small W about 1"-2-1/2" from the stepped knotch.
Most early ones I've run across are marked on that side (if marked at all).
WRA increased the size of their W stamp later on, these larger stamps often found on the other ledge...... closer to the rear.
Don't confuse the M stamped Hg's which are often mis-bid, mis-described as being W's, they are a M replacement HG.
WRA Dogleg hammers and (if) a Bullnose HG usually draw a pretty good premium to mid-collectors.
I'll include a few pictures to help
HTH, :thup:
Charlie-Painter777
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC08202-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC08200-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC08201-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC05985-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC05988-1.jpg
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Pictures of the hand guard below, no markings I can see other than a single vertical line in the area you describe.
Is there a way to clean the stock without removing its character? This things is sticky.
Also, any pluses or minuses to replacing this stock with an original Winchester Stock? I had all correct parts on my old rifle. Not looking to sell, just enjoy hunting down the parts.
What does the 2 hammer strikes mean?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3fb16168-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...91505ec3-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2f0f2283-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...f28d297c-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...214e8cb2-1.jpg
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If you look along the upper right rail of the triggerguard at where the front of the block part of the hammer strikes it , you'll see a small patch of displaced metal. This is normal . The two hammer styles leave marks in slightly different locations. If the guard in question has both marks , it has had both styles of hammers in it at different times. If it left the factory with the dogleg ( one mark ) and was changed to straight ( 2nd mark ) but now has a dogleg back in , it means the dogleg is not original but rather an attempt at restoration.
Chris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
nsmi
Pictures of the hand guard below, no markings I can see other than a single vertical line in the area you describe.
Is there a way to clean the stock without removing its character? This things is sticky.
Also, any pluses or minuses to replacing this stock with an original Winchester Stock? I had all correct parts on my old rifle. Not looking to sell, just enjoy hunting down the parts.
What does the 2 hammer strikes mean?
NSMI,
Your HandGuard is a first style WRA with the Bullnose profile, many had no marking.
Stock cleaning:
Many different methods, I'm sure others will chime in. I use Mineral spirits.
Correct Stock:
With your serial# being 1,240,xxx you'd need a Oval shaped oiler slot with Hi-wood right rail. Called a Type II stock. Marking would be un-boxed letters W.R.A over G.H.D. with a crossed cannons cartouche next to it. Slingwell would have a small w stamp. Possible circled P proof on the bottom of the pistol grip.
Real Type II WRA stocks are pricey. Be very aware of fakes.
If me.... I'd make no changes.
2 hammer strikes:
Your trigger housing shows 2 types of hammer strikes.
Meaning at one time that housing had a straight hammer in it, now back to the earlier type I Dogleg hammer.
A pic from a fellow member..........
HTH,
Charlie-Painter777
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_4979-2.jpg
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Stock & Handgaurd
IMHO you have some very nice pieces in the stock & handgaurd. The others have addressed the handgaurd but I think your stock may be a sleeper. It is a transition period long (4.15") barrel channel M1 stock. I think Riesch refers to it as a late Type III low wood stock that Inland made starting in the 6 million serial number range, just before they started producing the M2 cut (full auto) Type IV stocks. You don't see these long channel M1 (not M2 cut) stocks very often and yours doesn't look like it has been sanded or otherwise molested to any degeree at all. I think it would clean up really, really nice and have excellent market value. I would baby it (no shooting or car trunks) if it were mine. Interesting carbine. Thanks for the many pics.
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If you look at your first pic of your hand gard, I believe there is a stamped W about 1" to the right of the stepped knotch along the inner edge.
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Had some time to kill today and a macro lens camera.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...5506ddb3-1.jpg
What does the 'F', 'F8' and '4' markings mean?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7881f9de-1.jpg
It looks like an 'I' stamp and 'O' stamp, what do these mean?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...8e851dee-1.jpg
Looks like a light 'W' stamp under the more pronounced 'W'
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6bf772bc-1.jpg
The W stamp is over a 'O' stamp, any idea why? What does the 'U' mean?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...c2f85255-1.jpg
Pick this magazine up on eBay, does this look real? Is it the right vintage for the rifle?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...fb396f63-1.jpg
50 yards with Aguila Ammunition. Winchester on the right, I took it to a gun smith to check out before shooting and ended up buying the NPM by Underwood carbine on the left.
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I think the "M in a horseshoe" rotary safety is from a "post war" supplier. I got these from an eBay auction pretty cheap. Nice pics! - Bob
Correction on ID of this safety - see the following link:
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=5777
