long branch no4 mk1* DP but not deactivated!

Hey guys. This is my first post. I am somewhat new to lee Enfield rifles. I had an ishapore 2a1 long ago but sold it. Also had a fazakerly 1948 no4 mk1 in mint conditon and numbers matching...sold it! Lol. Now this one is here to stay. All the numbers match except the magazine. I took this rifle to a gunsmith to make sure it was safe to fire since it was a DP and he said it was good to go and even put a round through it to be nice. It shot fine. Firing pin is good and headspace too. The patina on this gun is awesome. Found a few stripper clips to go with it as well.

Anyway. Back to the gun! I read some DP rifles were marked DP and werent even worn or deactivated but just becaise they were in need of DP rifles. The white stripe on the buttstock has been removed sometime in the past. Idk if they had permanet markers in the 40s lol but it has some initials on the buttstock. Imported by sarco. The corners for bolt release are chipped but stays on track 97% of the time lol. Bolt head is marked '1'. Also gun is marked "DP" 4 times kn jnderside of stock as well as on the receiver, bolt handle and magazine. Has the brass buttplate and grooved handguard and the 1300 meter sight.

Can anyone give me tips on how to post pics???? New to this site

Welcome to the forum. You may want to do a search for threads concerning DP rifles-there's a lot of them. Here's just one.

DP rifles

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Originally Posted by gewehrsniper

Anyway. Back to the gun! I read some DP rifles were marked DP and werent even worn or deactivated but just becaise they were in need of DP rifles.

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The whole point about DPs is that they are an unknown quantity because DP meant different things at different times to different nations. For example it can mean just the firing pin cut short and the firing pin hole blocked to wholesale destruction of the rifle such as the L59s.

Deactivation is a completely different subject.

But YOU don't know why the rifle was set aside for conversion to DP in the first place. It might be something simple like worn-out magazine stop face (or sear stop face as we have discussed recently....) to having been totally destroyed in a vehicle fire. I have seen both scenarios, one at each extreme end of the spectrum but easily brought up to DP spec for training.

I would ask the man to guarantee what he says about its safety, in writing............ AVOID IT LIKE THE PLAGUE

Welcome to the forum, gewehrsniper. Now about that rifle..... I wouldn't put a single round through it!! Plainly, I value my life more than that. Like Peter said, you don't know why it was DP'd in the first place. It's a huge unknown and a huge risk. There are lots of other No 4's out there with no issues at all. I would put this one back into DP trim to have in the collection and get another that is a good shooter.

Gewehrsniper: If you go back to the seller and educate him based on what you now know maybe he'd give you a refund or swap it for a safe shooter? As to photos, read the sticky thread 3 from the bottom- it works extremely well. If you can save photos on your harddrive and they're a meg or smaller (individually) you can upload them with ease. Your "name" suggests an interest in German snipers- do you have a K98k sniper or two?

Ridolpho

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Originally Posted by Ridolpho

Gewehrsniper: If you go back to the seller and educate him based on what you now know maybe he'd give you a refund or swap it for a safe shooter? As to photos, read the sticky thread 3 from the bottom- it works extremely well. If you can save photos on your harddrive and they're a meg or smaller (individually) you can upload them with ease. Your "name" suggests an interest in German snipers- do you have a K98k sniper or two?

Ridolpho

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Thanks guys. And no I do not have any german sniper rifles lol. On sks boards they have this thing that states you are a minor and I am a minor. Is there a feature on here that says so? Anyway I'm 16 ive been foolin with guns since I was 12. I'm getting into some minlr gunsmithing. Ive had Enfields before and sold em so I wanted another and this is the only one i could find in my area. I took it to a gunsmith who specializes jn antiaue guns and he said it would be fine to shoot and even shot it for me lol he said the headspace is right, the sear seems fine and not reallt worn, he said the only flaw in the gun is the corners are broke in the bolt release gap but still stays on track nice. I got it for $225 (I'm in MO U.S.) and it came with a hardcase which I think is very fair.

Is there anything else I should look for

Here's the thing..... There could be issues at play here that can't be seen with the naked eye. A DP rifle is a literal time bomb! Search through this forum, it was just a couple years ago a gent lost part of his thumb to a DP marked Enfield. Take a bit of time and research DP rifles and you will find some scary stuff. Sure, this one may fire 100 rounds just fine, but what will you do when it blows up in your face on round 101? Yes, it is that serious!

Here's a few links to other threads where Peter and others have discussed the pitfalls of DP and ZF marked rifles ...

ZF marking on Enfields?

DP Stock Marks Query

DP Rifles

Please read them all thoroughly before you go and shoot it ... :thup:

Regards,
Doug

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Originally Posted by Badger

Here's a few links to other threads where Peter and others have discussed the pitfalls of DP and ZF marked rifles ...

ZF marking on Enfields?

DP Stock Marks Query

DP Rifles

Please read them all thoroughly before you go and shoot it ... :thup:

Regards,
Doug

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I think I'm gonna buy a new sear and trigger spring just to be safe. When you dryfire the weapon the bolt handle kicks up about half a centimeter so im thinking it is the sear. I'm goin to replace it just to be safe and thoroughly inspect it some more. The guy I bought it from said he had shot it before and it was damn accurate at 400 yds. He could have been lying but the guy seemed honestthe muzzle passes the bullet test and barrel has nice rifling and is pretty shiny. From the research ive gathered I'm thinking maybe it was just marked DP because whoever used it was in need of a DP rifle and. Couldnt get enough of them....??? I'm lost lol I don't know what to say part of me is scared to shoot it but the other part wants to belekve it is safe to shoot lol

Reread post #4, then do it again!

http://[URL=http://s161.photobucket.com/user/Alan_de_Enfield/media/flogging_dead_horse_what.jpg.html]https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rse_what-1.jpg[/URL][/IMG]

Gewhere sniper. There is a short phrase that I read often on this very forum. It goes something like this.......

Read wisely and often. For the power of ignorance is great.

If I was writing that, I'd ament it to read Read wisely and often and take it on board. For the power of ignorance is great

Very well said. However if he won't listen then on his own head be it.

I didnt mean any disrespect. I'm listening and I'm taking in everything you guys are saying. But ive been doing some reading and it seems this gun was DP'd and re-used. I think the firing pin was shortened at one time and then replaced to make it usable again. Under the wood the barrel literally lloks brand new and stilk had some grease on it. I took it to a gunsmith who specializes in antiques and also does a lot with enfields and he said it was a very nice peice and was fine to shoot and fired it once out the back door. He said the headspace is good, chamber is clean and no flaws, rifling and bore are nice, and it didnt peirce the primer or anything.

I bet that the person who fitted the new striker didn't worry about lift or bolthead overturn or striker protrusion or.......... Anyway! Just my 2c's worth as a bit part amateur

Notes from Peter Laidler :

During the 60’s and 70’s there was a constant need for No4 DP rifles, not only for cadet Forces but Parachute training too where the actual carrying of a rifle was more important than what the weapon was for. The reason for the attrition in this case was quite understandable. So a small but continuous rolling programme of ‘DP-ing’ was undertaken. Naturally many ZF/BER No4’s plus otherwise serviceable rifles were put into the programme plus a healthy dollop of L1A1 rifles too. Not only were these worn out rifles put into the pot, but we later learned, several thousand extensively fire damaged No4, L1A1 rifles and Bren guns that had been involved in a massive fire. These were aesthetically cleaned down, rebuilt to DP standard and profusely marked JUST so that there could be no doubt about their status. Oh, they looked very nice but what had gone on under the surface was a matter of conjecture. Would YOU fire one? I’ve been an Armourer for a couple of years and while I or your local gunsmith could examine one and give it a bright clean bill of health, would YOU trust it. NO, I wouldn’t either!

That’s about it. In my very limited experience as an Armourer and having overseen some of these DP programmes, I can tell you with certainty that they were all profusely marked DP so that their status was unambiguous. Agreed, some might be taken straight from stocks, but the rest ……………

Would YOU trust one? There certainly IS a place for a DP rifle in a collection as it forms a place in the lineage of the breed. But in the cupboard or rack or on the wall. NOT on the firing point.


And how does he know this? An Engineering Graduate, Capt. Peter Laidler is the senior Armourer in the British Army since serving his apprenticeship between January 1963 and 66. He is currently the senior technical Officer at the Small Arms School at Warminster. And oversaw the introduction of the current L59 series of DP rifle. Or he just guessed. Pick what you think suits!
Resurrect a DP rifle from ANY nation......., no fear!

To be fair Alan, I should think that whacking a round off, outside the back door of the shop should be enough to convince anyone of its integrity..... But that's just me!

Well he will either listen and not shoot it or will do what he wants. In the second case I sure hope his family has good medical insurance.

Thread closed... enough said... :thup:

Peter (and others) have provided more than sufficient caveats and cautions.

If the owner still wishes to ignore those and justify his own reasons to shoot it, using other arguments and sources, that's his choice .. ;)

Thanks to everyone who stepped up and provided the appropriate warnings and concerns... :clap:

Regards,
Doug