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I have a box of 170 grain laser cast flat nosed bullets 500 ct, was wondering if they could be used in my 91/30s they are 310 dia and if anyone has tried this or has any load suggestions for these in a mosin, i have 4064 powder right now can not get much more at this time. I would appreciate any help that coul dbe given thanx all.
Yes, you can use lead cast bullets. I don't load for 54r "tons of surplus" or lead cast but I do use IMR4064 with anything over 150g and it works very well for me.
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First, slug your bore and find out what size it is. If it measures .309 or less, then you are good to go. IF IT MEASURES OVER .310, don't use those bullets as they will lead the barrel. If it measures right at .310, you can try them and see how they work, but leading is possible. Unless they are gas checked, I wouldn't use 4064. I would go with 8 grains of unique as a starting point.
Slug your barrel i think those bullets are to small for your rifle. You could try 11gr of 2400 for unchecked loads. Here is article with lots of info on cast bullets in milsurp rifles. Cast Bullet Loads for Military Rifles - Article
the rifle is a perfect .308 dia sniper mosin pu., just hate to not use all these bullets and they do have a gas check, do have another mosin sniper slugs at .311 unique hu?, i do use that in my .30 carbine and 45 auto so have lots of unique in cabinet, low on rifle powder , thanx ill try a few with the unique,btw great article in book t/y. i kinda figured 4064 would be too fast . But all i was able to get along with 4198,varget and 4895 have disapeared here in Ohio.:mad:
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i would also assume these would require a roll crimp as well im thinking? Being lead bullets and such a reduced charge?
Try 8-9 gr unique. Frair the cases with a Lee flaring die before seating the bullets. Just crimp enough to remove the flair. Seat the bullet at least the dia of the bullet. If your bullets aren't lubed tumble lube them with Lee Alox Lube. A little goes a long way.
No roll crimp on these lead bullets?That is interesting, thought all lead bullets needed roll crimped?But i have not reloaded many lead bullets but hate to not use these,may just sell them they were for a marlin 30-30 i traded off a while back.And they called for roll crimp in laser cast data book.I loaded and shot about 25 of them very accurate in my marlin 30-30, think they would sell? anyoe have a clue lol,im scratching my head on this one lol.thanx guys.
Milsurp60 I don't know where you are in Ohio but the Fin Fur and Feather store in Middleton Heights/Berea store had 4895 in both 1 and 8 pound containers last month and quite a bit of it I would have to assume that the Ashland and Akron stores have it stock as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by mil-surp60
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also I tried 150 hornady soft points in .312 and pushed it with IMR 4895,H 4895 and Varget starting at 40 grains with each and adding another 1/2 grain up to 45 grains and I couldn't get any of them to shoot any better than factory or surplus. I got rid of both Mosins.
My sniper mosins shoot rather well , i just loaded a hundred to go try out with 4064 in various weights from 150 to 220 gr rn , i will see how my handloads do in my snipers, i did manage to get 3 lbs of imr-4895 at cabelas, that will hold me over till midway or someone else notifies me it has 8 lb jugs, i just wanted to use these bullets as i allready have them and being 30 cal .310 dia seems they would work in a mosin that measures.308. in the bore with no counter bore , bore in my sniper izzy is imacculate.oh well was an idea ,guess ill just try and sell or trade them. I have lots of spam can ammo and plenty of 30 cal bullets maybe ill experiment , still think they would need roll crimped they did in my 30-30 loads.
Bolt action rifles don't need to be crimped some guys do crimp their cast loads lots of guys don't. If you are loading for a rifle with a tube magazine loads with cast or jacketed need to be crimped. If your bullets don't have gas checks i don't think 4064 is a good idea.
they have a gas check and are prelubed, i got a hold of some imr 4895 for it to try.just need a starting point on how much to charge the case with.I did roll crimp for the 30-30 i originaly bought them for ,shot well, but were talking bolt action mil-surp now . I will continue my research quest or end up trying to sell them just seems they would work in a mosin but i am no lead bullet expert.Hate to have to take a loss on the bullets but if it wont work it wont work right?thanx guys.:confused:
As you have said the bore slugged .308" so the .310" dia. bullet will work fine,it will probably shoot a larger dia. cast bullet as long as it will chamber. In general you can measure the inside case neck dia. of a once fired case and subtract .001" and that dia. bullet should work fine but your .310" should do well.
As for powder you have quiet a few options. My go to powder for 170 gr. cast lead gas check bullets in my Mosin is 16.0 grs. of Alliant 2400 My second option is 13.0 grs. of Alliant Red Dot no fillers needed in either load and they simply shoot great an those powders burn very clean in the longer rifle barrels. I throw both these charges with my RCBS Lil Dandy powder dumper,I also used a med. roll crimp in the provided crimp groove on the bullet.
If you don't have 2400 or Red Dot Ed Harris says the following
Other powders that work well with cast loads not mentioned above are Unique,SR-4759,Accurate 5744.Quote:
Sixteen Grains of #2400 is the Universal Load
The same 16 grain charge of #2400 is universal for all calibers as a starting load. It is mild and accurate in any larger military case from a 30-40 Krag or .303 British up through a 30-06 or 7.9x57, with standard weight bullets of suitable diameter for the caliber. This is my recommendation for anybody trying cast bullets loads for the first time in a military rifle without prior load development. I say this because #2400 is not "position sensitive", requires no fiber fillers to ensure uniform ignition, and actually groups better when you stripper-clip load the rifle and bang them off, rather than tipping the muzzle up to position the powder charge.
Similar ballistics can be obtained with other powders in any case from 7.62x39 to 30-06 size. If you don't have Hercules #2400, you can freely substitute 17 grains of IMR or H4227, 18 grains of 4198, 21 grains of Reloder 7, 24 grains of IMR 3031, or 25.5 grains of 4895 for comparable results.
However, these other powders may give some vertical stringing in cases larger than the 7.62x39 unless the charge is positioned against the primer by tipping the muzzle up before firing. Hercules #2400 does not require this precaution. Don't ask me why. Hercules #2400 usually gives tight clusters only within a narrow range of charge weights within a grain or so, and the "universal" 16 grain load is almost always the best. Believe me, we have spent a lot of time trying to improve on this, and you can take our word for it.
I shoot the Lee 160 gr. ends up being 170 with lube a gas check applied in my Mosin I originally bought it to shoot in my SKS rifle but turns out they all had the same groove dia. so the Mosin get to use it to,I've even sized them down to .311" and it shoots great in my Sav. 99 in 300 Sav.
5 shot test group using the 16.0 gr. Universal Load
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2266c23c-1.jpg
dude , you just gave me all i needed to start , yes its a perfect .308 dia in mosin sniper model, I was pretty sure they could be used as well as i have used oversized cast bullets in my blackhawks with mo problems as long as you stay within a few thousnads of bores size.. i have a lb of 4198 i could use for testing loads and if i can find some 2400 ill grab it up ,i have damn near 500 of these bullets and thought same thing use in my mosin, .310 , are 30 cal , should easily work was my thinking thanx my freind , now at least i have a starting point.Thats an impressive grouping from an M44 ?Damn fine shooting with lead bullets. have you ever had leading probs in barrel after using the lead bullets?
Not in any of my rifles I shoot cast lead plain base and gas check designs in them all an in some low velocity plinker loads where the gas check isn't needed I just leave it off completely. Those are mainly shot in the old Sav. 30-30 pump gun using 7.0 grs. of Red Dot. But I just recently picked up another mold that throws a Lee .314" tumble lube 90 gr. SWC drops at .315" with pure lead that I shoot sized to .314" in my Mosin and SKS and size it down to .311" for all my 30 cal. US rifles.3.0 to 3.5 grs. of Alliant Bullseye provides the power to get that little bullet just over 1K fps. darn accurate as well and shoots under 2" at 50 yds in all the rifle I use it in.Quote:
Have you ever had leading probs in barrel after using the lead bullets?
The only real leading issued I have is in a new Taurus 357 mag. revolver I bought a couple years ago the forcing cone is a little rough an likes to strip a little lead with plain base bullet but with a gas check design it's not a problem,the little bit of leading I do get is easily removed. It will work itself out after I put enough rds. through it and smooth that out.
Was just looking through some of my cast bullet load manuals and they have a Saeco 180 gr. #2 alloy cast bullet similar to the 170 gr. you have,the starting load in the Lyman Cast Bullet manual #4 using the 180 gr. bullet is 20.0 grs. of IMR-4198 @1600+ fps. you will most likely get that and a little better using the 170 and that's plenty of velocity for paper punching,small game or varmints or Med size deer.
The LazerCast bullet is way harder than #2 alloy and want expand but the flat nose portion of the bullet will do the work and create a decent wound channel.
Thnax for all the help my friend , at least i have a use for these .310 170 fp's that i have near 500 of , soon as the weather breaks i will deff try this 4196 i have and see if i can locate the other powders, powder in the Ohio valley area has gotten hard to come by, most times the day it hits shelves its all gone around here , does seem to be making a small comeback now in availaility , all the dems did with their stupid anti gun rhetoric is make it hard on us never broke law 1 in our life ,very difficult to even reload our own, took me 5 months to locate 5000 rifle primers and 2000 pistol, just ridiculous how they let these people determine prices and availability of ammo and reloading components along with the price gouging of weapons that were selling for 4 times what they were worth, they will not stop till they get their way , all who read this forum remember which dems or turncoat repubs were ,i have them written down, so next november , i can watch em all cry when we vote them all out of a job, the repubs may be greedy, but not once have they come after my rights and trampled on our 2nd amendent rights like these people in office have now.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKS50