How to breakdown a 1943 Winchester model 97 trench gun??

After removing the bayonet brace and taken the magazine tube out of the receiver and I thought now I should be able to turn the barrel and yoke assemble 90 degrees and remove but I can't get it to budge.
Then I read somewhere that Canfield has written that the military versions of the model 97 were made so they can't be taken apart like the normal civilian model 97. Is he right?
Help will be appreciated.
Also, on the right side of the yoke assembly is what looks like a little lever between the barrel and magazine tube. What is the purpose of that?

Is it a take down or a solid frame? How about some pics? If it's a takedown and you have the mag tube removed, then someone has turned the heading ring tight and forced the front onto the back half. It'll still come apart, just not by hand. That little "Lever " is the lock that holds the heading ring in place. It has nothing to do with what you're doing.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Is it a take down or a solid frame? How about some pics? If it's a takedown and you have the mag tube removed, then someone has turned the heading ring tight and forced the front onto the back half. It'll still come apart, just not by hand. That little "Lever " is the lock that holds the heading ring in place. It has nothing to do with what you're doing.

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Thanks for that information. I've ordered Canfield's book on military shotguns, but I understand he states the military versions were made not be break down??? Here are some pictures of my shotgun. 1943 Winchester Model 97 Trench Shotgun Photos by lovtgolf | Photobucket

Your bolt should be open when stripping a takedown. The trench guns were at times converted to a solid frame. I've seen little strips of metal formed around the bottom and screwed in place or screws put in the front of the magazine.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Your bolt should be open when stripping a takedown. The trench guns were at times converted to a solid frame. I've seen little strips of metal formed around the bottom and screwed in place or screws put in the front of the magazine.

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No, nothing apparent like that on this shotgun. We don't have a competent gunsmith in this town so hopefully someone will give me the answer. If the WWII Winchester 97's were made not to break down, I'm wondering how they did that???

I'm not quite sure what Jim means by the bolt should be open when stripping a takedown. The bolt must be closed otherwise the action bar can't be withdrawn from the receiver so the two halves can be separated. Actually it's not necessary to separate the two halves to strip the action of a TD 97.

You received some incorrect information. I never stated that WWII Model 97 trenchguns could not be diassembled. Of course, the handguard/bayonet adapter assembly must first be removed but, otherwise, there were no mechnical differences between the military contract guns and the civilian guns.

The front half should just rotate clockwise on the receiver. I suspect it's been crowded closed by over tightening the heading ring. Another way of tightening that you sometimes see, doesn't appear in this case...is to batter the receiver with a hammer to make the metal swell forward.

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Originally Posted by vintage hunter

bolt should be open when stripping a takedown

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Don't know what I was thinking there...just like you say...

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Originally Posted by Bruce Canfield

You received some incorrect information. I never stated that WWII Model 97 trenchguns could not be diassembled. Of course, the handguard/bayonet adapter assembly must first be removed but, otherwise, there were no mechnical differences between the military contract guns and the civilian guns.

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Bruce, I just got through pouring through your book looking for that statement with no luck, which now makes sense (since you never wrote it). I got that idea from reading the writeup of a Winchester trench gun that is currently listed on Gunbroker. I just can not get it to budge and afraid to stick it in the vise and start using force. One question: How should it turn out? As you are looking back toward the receiver from the muzzle end, the barrel and yoke should turn 90 degrees counter cw from that view, right?

Maybe these disassembly instructions will help (see link below).

97 Takedown Procedures

There ya go!

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Originally Posted by Tom Doniphon

Maybe these disassembly instructions will help (see link below).

97 Takedown Procedures

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Thanks for that. Just knowing there is nothing to keep it from turning out is helpful. I guess mine is tough to disassemble because it hasn't been done in many years. I'll get it now.

Let us know would you?

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Let us know would you?

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Will do.

I know I'm late to the party, but here is the 1942 Army manual for disassembly of the shotgun, plus other models. I have used it to completely disassemble my Savage 720 and my Stevens 520 and will also trust it for my Ithaca 37's. It works very, very well. Very complete and easy to use if the directions are followed.

http://www.cgsc.edu/carl/wwIItms/TM9_285_1942.pdf

I decided to dedicate this Sunday morning to trying to take it apart again. With NO success! I had the slide action bar and magazine tube completely out and the barrel/yoke assembly just will not budge. No play or any sign it will ever come out. Guess I'll have to find a competent gunsmith and see what he thinks.. I bought a bore snake and ran that through it.. That will have to suffice for now. Not sure I need a $6K-$8K shotgun. I'll probably never shoot it anyway.

I 'd be double sure he's competent with Winchester 97's. It's rather easy to crush the barrel extension if you go about it the wrong way.
If it were mine I wouldn't worry about separating the two halves for cleaning as it's not absolutely necessary to do so and doesn't give you anymore access to the receiver internals anyway.

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Originally Posted by vintage hunter

I 'd be double sure he's competent with Winchester 97's. It's rather easy to crush the barrel extension if you go about it the wrong way.
If it were mine I wouldn't worry about separating the two halves for cleaning as it's not absolutely necessary to do so and doesn't give you anymore access to the receiver internals anyway.

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I agree with you. Look at this statement lifted from a Trench gun that is currently on Gunbroker; WW2 VINTAGE, ARSENAL PARKERIZED AS IT WAS ORIGINALLY GUN BLUED BY WINCHESTER IN WW2 AND ALSO SHOULD SHOW GHD INSPECTORS INITIALS IN THE BUTT, 4 ROW HANDGARD, 44 DATED BARREL,USUAL HANDLING MARKS, HAS ORIGINAL FOREARM, TAKE DOWN MODEL WAS ORIGINALLY MADE TO MILITARY SPECS.,SO CANNOT BE TAKEN APART" !!!!

The exclamation points are mine. Evidentally, he has different information. Bruce Canfield does not state that in his book; "Military Shotguns", and in this very post topic he further wrote that he never stated that, so I wonder who is right??? I know mine sure does not want to be taken down for some reason. ???

It would sure be nice to take a look at it to see for myself. Most every firearm can be disassembled. That's what you're doing. The guns had screws added to avoid take down like a standard '97(in some cases) but they'll still come apart. I wonder what we're missing here?

I'd like to see some pictures of it myself, especially where the two halves join. If the military did specify they be built so as not to be broken down in the normal manner all that would be required is for the adjusting sleeve be advanced a few notches. There was no doubt a barrel wrench to align the halves and without it breaking it down by had would be impossible.

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Originally Posted by vintage hunter

all that would be required is for the adjusting sleeve be advanced a few notches. breaking it down by had would be impossible.

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And that's what I was talking about way up in post 2. Also if it was a bit loose and someone did that, it would work out the same. You'd need a wrench affair and vise...and some experience...unless someone used locktight. Copious quantities...

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Originally Posted by vintage hunter

I'd like to see some pictures of it myself, especially where the two halves join. If the military did specify they be built so as not to be broken down in the normal manner all that would be required is for the adjusting sleeve be advanced a few notches. There was no doubt a barrel wrench to align the halves and without it breaking it down by had would be impossible.

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Here are the pictures again: 1943 Winchester Model 97 Trench Shotgun Photos by lovtgolf | Photobucket

That is a very nice 97. I don't see any sign of it being apart since it was built and if it were mine I would be hesitant to disassemble it if it isn't absolutely necessary. I believe Brownell's has a screw driver set made specifically for Winchester 97's that may be of interest if you decide to take it apart. Thanks for the photo's.

Thanks for your comments and I agree with you. I'm not going to mess with it. I bought a bore snake and cleaned it that way. Now, I'm just curious if the military really did build these not to be broken down. Bruce Canfield posted that he thinks they should be just like the commercial models in that regard.

I've never owned or had the opportunity to disassemble a trench gun so I can't help with that any. This is the first I've heard about the military specifying trench guns be made so that it can't be broken down in the normal way. It don't make a whole lot of sense to me but............ Anyway, since yours looks to have never been apart that pretty much rules out somebody mucking about with the adjusting sleeve.
I do own 3 commercial 97's plus a pair of model 12's and whilst learning how to service them I was advised by an armorer friend to grease the barrel extension and mag tube threads as well as a thin film where the halves mated prior to re-assembly to prevent wear so I'm now thinking that may be your trouble. Things stuck together with old dried out grease can be pure hell to get apart at times.

I don't see any reason to take that shotgun apart, whether it's possible or not.

That's a great collectible M97, I have a similar 1943 GHD M97 and I wouldn't take mine apart either. Unless absolutely necessary!!

I don't think this one should be going to the range, way too collectible and valuable in that condition.

Regards,
-Steve

When shooting M1 Garands , if you have trouble with the cylinder lock screw coming loose , just put a light dab of grease on the LAST couple of threads and it'll stay tight . When cleaning time comes , you'll see why only the last couple of threads were to be treated . Almost as good as red loctite.
Chris