Not often seen

I happened on this the other day so had to acquire it is for the No I Mk III as far a can ascertain a standard barrel tried it on a No 4 but wont close.
I know the armourers in this forum would have seen squillions of them and all the other bits and bobs that go towards tending the old girls but for a civy in an island at the bottom of the planet these things are hard to procure and I am lucky, bit like the instructor sighting aid for the No.4 rear sight not often seen but managed to get one of those as well.

Thanks guys have a good day. :wave:

Was watching this too, I asked the seller how it was supposed to fit the SMLE,? "It goes over the Muzzle" WHAT muzzle? "You have to take the nose-cap off first" Seems a bit pointless to me.

Try it on a long lee:thup:

What is it?? And, what does it do?

Al

Looks like a muzzle guide for cleaning?

Could be but, that looks like an awful lot of engineering for a cleaning guide.

Al

That's what the seller said it was for to protect the crown of the muzzle for some reason or another maybe Peter Laidler could explain the reason why they would want to go from the muzzle unless it was to de-foul a barrel against the rifling just a supposition I guess, I agree it is well made but allot of British stuff is like that.

Thanks for the replies will post the pics of the rear sight aim corrector form the No.4 a bit later

I've had a couple of these over the years - and foolishly sold them.

I was always told it was used to clamp over the end of the barrel (having removed the nose-piece) and protected the crown from damage.
It was used for clearing serious blockages (like 4x2 stuck in barrel or 'squib load' resulting in bullet half way along barrel). Armourer could then uses a brass rod, slide it down the guide and hammer away to clear the blockage.

Peter Laidler may have another application - but thats what I was told it was used for.

Here is a pic of one of mine - you can see the diameter reduction to support the 'brass-rod'

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...f3858b26-1.jpg

Now that I come to think about it, I don't ever recall a lesson about removing a bullet in the bore. The only one I saw was a totally jammed and compressed pullthrough in an AR-15 belonging to 8 RAR. Fired it out with a blank which stretched the body to TMH axis pin hole! Rifle written off. We were warned about cordwear but unless it affected the accuracy pattern it was ignored. But what a palava to prevent cordwear!

As an armourer's item, makes more sense to me now.

I just couldn't see it as a general issue to troops.

I use mine when cleaning my .303 Martini Enfield - very useful.

It was offered in some Parker Hale catalogs for many years.

And so it's....?

I would suggest that if it hasn't at least got a broad arrow on it, it's a commercial item.
I have seen the same set up used as a cleaning rod guide for Martini rifles, which makes sense as there is nothing to obstruct fitting the guide to a Martini (like the nosecap on the SMLE) and having to do all your cleaning from the muzzle, wear to the crown would be a very big consideration.

The strange irony is that a GUIDE, cleaning rod is issued for the current range of sniper rifles!

Peter, after that mis-hap (post # 9: ... Rifle written off...) - what would be your current recommendation about removing "a totally jammed and compressed pullthrough"?
I've heard all sorts of suggestions like:
- burning it out from within (red hot poker) - seems reasonable
- drilling it out (quarter inch brass tube with teeth filed on edge) - seems equally reasonable
- burning it out from without (torch applied to exterior of barrel) - ???
Unanimously the advice is to avoid (a) steel rod pounded down barrel [damages bore] and (b) wooden dowel pounded down barrel [splinters and makes a bigger obstruction] and (c) any form of acid or alkali..

?
Rob

No broad arrow but has G.E.S 2 on it no other markings see Pic # 4

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobD

Peter, after that mis-hap (post # 9: ... Rifle written off...) - what would be your current recommendation about removing "a totally jammed and compressed pullthrough"?
I've heard all sorts of suggestions like:
- burning it out from within (red hot poker) - seems reasonable
- drilling it out (quarter inch brass tube with teeth filed on edge) - seems equally reasonable
- burning it out from without (torch applied to exterior of barrel) - ???
Unanimously the advice is to avoid (a) steel rod pounded down barrel [damages bore] and (b) wooden dowel pounded down barrel [splinters and makes a bigger obstruction] and (c) any form of acid or alkali..

?
Rob

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There is a cleaning rod attachment with a tapping screw end to it for trying to pluck pieces of jammed patches from the bore of the Enfields. I have one or two downstairs somewhere.

I have never heard of any good coming from clearing a bore with a blank.

Rob,

Buy a good quality one piece cleaning rod, roll the pull through up properly and put it in the butt trap PERMANENTLY! Unless, you're out on ops and don't have a sectional rod with you, (they have their own issues), please don't use the bloody things! I have a pile of the little .22 cal L85 pull throughs here and I wouldn't put one in my Armalite rifles unless it was the last method of cleaning a barrel left on earth.

Brian

I made my own out of a 5.56 cleaning rod and a headless self tapping screw, back end screwed into the cleaning rod. The screw cannot contact the surface of the bore, being smaller than the rod and concentric with it. Need a lot of patience.. I spent an hour one day and ended up pulling one piece, 11 inches long of four-by out of a Mag58 barrel!
When I have used it on a sniper rifle, I wrapped it in several places with PTFE tape to build up frictionless bushes so even the steel rod did not contact the 7.62 bore... under the watchfull eye of one very sheepish operator :sos:

Trying to shoot out a broken pullthrough with a blank isn't the best idea but then, when you're just 20 and........... and it's late on a Friday and............ I say leave it stood upright and fill the barrel with oil and let it stand for the weekend now. THEN set about it with a blank!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO......, just a joke!!!!!!! Then set about it with the 'ADAPTOR, screw, clearing as described above!

When I was very young, I stuck a pullthrough and brush and cloth in my FN C1...I was a trainee and we were out on the defensive position in the summer. I went to my section commander (who still lives about 20 miles from me today) and he cursed and swore and pounded with a rod, cleaning...He managed to force a blank into the chamber and close the action. He pointed it down range and fired...the pullthrough came out in two parts. I collected it and returned it to it's owner, a close friend. I'd already lost mine and he'd made me promise not to break his. I used that rifle for the rest of the training cycle with it showing no ill effect (to my eyes).

These are shown in the 1933 A. G. Parker & Co. catalogue on page 72 under "Regulation Armourer's Tools", as "Guide, Muzzle". The barrel to which it is shown as fitted is a M.L.E. with the pressed foresight protector. The "Rod, Cleaning" also illustrated has a corresponding flat shoulder to stop the rearward movement of the rod.

No doubt A.G. Parker had purchased quantities of obsolete or WWI surplus armourer's tools in the 1920s.

So if AJ brought them in the 20's then they should have the AJP gather this was pre Parker/Hale days but what does the 2 G.E.S on my guide suggest maker wise.
Thanks in advance

Hi, Mine has AGP on the screw and body, it also has the 2 like the one in the photo and a broad arrow.

You would never believe what the average crunchie will try to drag through a barrel. I have seen half a shirt, a tank sized piece of camouflage net.... Ok a bit of exaggeration there, but you get my dift. A line of 4" nails used to attempt to push the blockage backwards........ I mean....., if it ain't going forwards, then it ain't going to come out backwards either, especially with a line of nails, but nope........ they won't learn! Old screws, even a cleaning rod screwed into the blocked and now totally compressed 'stuff' SA80's that have been held over a fire to try to melt the old nylon pullthroughs out. Instead, it just melts the nylon into a heap of blob, all mixed in with the brass weight...............

Tankie, BinO, Son and Skippy will have even more examples. And guess what........ It's always late on a Friday after a week on the ranges and they're all trying to pxxx off home early for the weekend.

What I recal seeing, from time-to-time, was a chamber cleaning brush ( I think) pushed into the gas tube- goes in OK, out not so. Like one of those Chinese finger trapping things. Not good news at all. Some disassembly required.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RCEMERalf

a chamber cleaning brush pushed into the gas tube

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Was that with the FN? That was the approved method of cleaning the gas cylinder, the brush was for that. It's in the book. CFP 318(2) It was supposed to go in alone though, without anything on it(cloth)...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

they won't learn

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Our armorer had a word of advise..."If you do it, that's one thing. Bring it to me. Don't do more and damage things." So that's the rule I lived by in later career. Problem is, I'd take the heat for the young soldier...Oh well...

The chamber brush could be used to clean the FIRST part of the gas cylinder but they'd put it on a section of the cleaning rod from the LMG cleaning kit and try to push it all the way through and OUT of the piston hole at the body end. That's where the fun and games started. THEN they'd unwind the bloody thing thinking that you could....... and the brush part would come away from the........... and........... and.............. When it was really stuck, the really clever bloke in the section would just screw it harder until the threads sheared..................

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

through and OUT of the piston hole at the body end

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Uhhh...no, it won't go through that end...

It WILL if you are a crunchie BAR and you try REALLY hard....................

I am sir...and I still can't see trying it...but then again, I liked those rifles and didn't want to harm them.

Attachment 51654 About 1982...

We were talking about this little gem back on page two of this thread. I happened across mine today, so thought I would share a photo.

Which rod? Parker Hale?

I ran downstairs and tried it on my 4 PH rods.....no go. It would thread about 3-1/2 turns then stop. I'm heading out to the workshop so I'll try it on the US pattern rods, as well as the rods that came with the FN C1A1 cleaning kit. It could well be for either of those.

The NSN for this one was an early Canadian number, so it could just as likely be related to the FN as to the Enfield. Both weapon systems are closely NSN numbered with some overlap on oddball stuff.

I spotted one of these tools available on a US gunparts website. Price is $45. Is is described as : MLE 'Long Lee' Cleaning Rod Guide

MLE 'Long Lee' Cleaning Rod Guide - BRP CORP Store

That SCREW removing brokewn pullthrough thing in thread 33 was fitted to the long T handled cleaning rod that you could use to get a bit of a grip on to twist it into the tank sized bit of rag jammed in the bore. You had to be careful to only do a turn at a time and pull back because if you did a few turns, the screw would just screw itself int the blockage and stick fast until you undid it. And guess what happened then........................... Yep, that screw bit would unscrew from the rod so THEN, you had the pullthrough, the tank sized bit of rag AND the unscrewed screw, screwed into the rag which you couldn't pull backwards. You then had to resort to........................

Fxxxxxx jobs we used to get............ You just resort to the blowtorch

Wouldn't it make sense for the weapons shop to dedicate a cleaning rod to the attachment, and permanently fix the screw onto it either by silver solder or perhaps by (in more modern times) loctite? A cleaning rod is a lot cheaper than a barrel.

Nice pic Jim, would the uniform still fit ?

Regarding the subject of clearing blockages I,ve copied below form an old post of mine regarding cleaning the rifle after using a chamber adapter, more to with time than anything else and I was trying to cut corners to save time, anyway .....



As it was a while between aquiring the ammo and finally going to the club and testing it out, I forgot what the bloke at bisley had said " Its old ammo so the primers may be corrosive" he was spot on, doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out what the barrel looked like a week later !!

Well this is were the fun started, not phased I give it a good clean and the bore come good, took a long time, but finally got to the point of using my pull through, of course this was an original from a cleaning kit (old) thought I,d give it one last clean so changed the cleaning patch and started on the final pull, it was tight but started to go, got to half way and it snapped, At this point I was slightly pi**** off to say the least, the left over of the pull through started to shift but finally wouldnt go anymore even hammering the alluminum rod down, the pull through was acting like a buffer as it was compressed so tight, plan C was put in to action, I had made a few years before some brass and Aluminium extractors and also something that resembles a deep hole drill bit, (all soft material ). so went out in to the garage with the rifle.

Its a long process and to speed it up I leaned over to get the drill from the workbench, (I was sat on a box at the time, with the rifle across my knees), as soon as I touched the drill I got a shock, with this I moved my arm downwards throwing the drill to the floor, at this point I moved a leg which just had the rifle balanced on one knee, of course once the drill had left my hand, my hand was still travelling at some speed and enough speed and force to hit the rifle which forced the fore-end down towards the floor and causing the butt to jump up and smack me just on the corner of the eye socket, with in minutes it looked like a murder scene, claret everywhere, dripping all over, all down my front I manged to stem the blood with my T shirt and cover the rifle while I went back into the house, locked the rifle up, and had a look at the damage, it needed something so found a clean shirt and taped a patch over the wound and went down to the drop in centre.

The nurse said "what have you been doing"

"walked into the door" I said ........


Lucky for me no damage to rifle but was a learning curve

Attachment 52652Attachment 52653

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

would the uniform still fit ?

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Matter of fact, I haven't changed that much...just a few lines...

The '08-15 didn't have a plugged barrel, it had other issues...

This thread sparked a memory, remembered that I had one as well. Pulled it from the bits box and found that it doesn't fit a Long Lee at all. But it does fit a MKII trainer. Has a Canadian C broad arrow and is marked "NO 2".

There...finally.