Bolt on Eddystone 1917 wont chamber a round?

I bought an Eddystone 1917 last week. After taking it home and cleaning it a bit, I decided to drop a snap cap into the mag and work the rifle. (The snap caps Im using are A Zoom, 30-06.). From what I can tell, the barrel "looks" original, meaning that the date of manufacture is still visible. Mine's 7 - 18.

The bolt wouldn't close with a snap cap. However, it would close on an empty chamber.

I wasn't sure what was wrong, so I started looking over the bolt. I found that the cocking piece was an after-market cock on opening piece. (That cocking piece and bolt sleeve were a different color than the rest of the bolt). I replaced that with a normal cock on closing piece. After installing that, I tried to chamber another snap cap, and it still wouldn't chamber.

I took another look over the bolt and thought maybe there could be an extractor issue? Well, I looked over the internet at pictures of 1917 extractors and found that mine didn't have a hole in the forward area where the claw is. Pictures to help describe below.

This is what I believe the extractor should look like. Almost every picture I found were like these.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...53aba97a-1.jpg

And here's a picture of my extractor.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...53abb2e5-1.jpg

There's no hole in mine. Also, the left red arrow shows that the cutout there is much more curved than those in the picture above this one.

I have an extra extractor in the mail, which should be here soon.

Finally, I began to look closer at the chamber. I took out the bolt and dropped a 30-06 snap cap into the chamber. It doesn't seat all the way. The back of the case sticks out maybe 1/5 of an inch.

Here's a picture.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...53ac7b20-1.jpg

I also have some .303 snap caps and dropped one of them in and they go all the way in. I began thinking I may have a .303 barrel. After looking around some more, Im pretty sure I have a 30-06 barrel. Mine's the cone shape with a straight cut-out. Using CBI barrels as a better picture, here's what mine looks like.

http://criterionbarrels.com/M1917-Enfield-Barrel

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...53ac7df0-1.jpg

If I understand correctly, .303/ p14 barrels don't have the cone shape, and have a slant cutout.

Im at a point to where I really have no idea what to do next. With the original date and looking at other barrels, I really think this is an original 30-06 barrel. Maybe the snap caps im using are not made to the correct dimensions?

Edit - Some more information which may be relevant - My bolt is not for .303. Also, when I take the bolt out of the rifle and place a 30-06 snap cap onto it, it very loosely hangs on, and can fall off with just the slightest shake.

Well, I wouldn't recommend modifying your rifle based on feedback from a snap cap. As far as the cartridge protruding from the chamber a bit, they do slightly. I would try to cycle some factory ammo through it before messing with everything.
As far as the extractor, might be wrong one, did you feed the cartridge in from the mag or just drop it in and chamber it. If the extractor is wrong it may be hard to cam over the rim of the cartridge. try feeding from magazine.

Being a controlled round feed and from my own Parker Hale 22/250 experiences you have to place the round in the mag and then cycle the bolt as it is almost impossible to get the claw over the round by trying to force it to close on a round already in the chamber you may do this once or twice but then again you may snap the claw from the extractor and there you go!

I've fed the snap caps from the magazine and also dropping one in the chamber and then trying to chamber it. They both end up the same way. The picture was just to show how far the snap cap sits out.

I'd still try a factory round, and don't be surprised the entire case head will be outside the chamber. That's the way they are.

I went ahead and ran to the local gun store and picked up a box of 30-06. I put a few in the magazine and tried to cycle them, but had the same problem. The bolt wont close. Here's a better quality picture of how they look and how far they stick out.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...cdd6dJPG-1.jpg

On the bright side, factory cases are held on much tighter by the extractor, and don't fall off with the slightest wiggle the way the snap caps do.

What do the marks on your barrel tell you? Who made it and for what? It should be marked. It also sort of looks like a separated case may have lodged in the chamber. Just the front part...just a little of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

What do the marks on your barrel tell you? Who made it and for what? It should be marked. It also sort of looks like a separated case may have lodged in the chamber. Just the front part...just a little of it.

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Here's pictures of all the symbols on the barrel.

Top view showing the model on the receiver + beginning of the barrel.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...cfe1cJPG-1.jpg

All I can see is the flaming bomb mark, and the picture below this one shows an "X8" or "X6", with an eagle stamp to the left.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...cfe1cJPG-1.jpg

Then on the opposite side (turning the barrel upside down), there's a "V5" stamp.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...cfe1cJPG-1.jpg

The forward end of the barrel has the number 7 - 18.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...cfe1cJPG-1.jpg

If I understand correctly, 7-18 means the date of manufacture, and the flaming bomb marks mean Eddystone. The "X8" and V5" marks have me clueless though. I cant find anything about them.

Well, maybe that takes us back to the separated casing idea...

It's possible. I don't really see anything abnormal in the chamber though. Im thinking about leaving a good amount of something like Break Free in the barrel overnight to see if it breaks up anything still left on the inside.

I took a picture while looking down the barrel, if this helps in any way.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d11a3JPG-1.jpg

Get hold of a 30/06 broken case extractor and try that even if nothing is there still a good bit of kit to have (Standard kit for us SMLE shooters :lol:)only other thing is get the chamber cast who knows what has happened to this weapon since it was produced!!

What is that mark at 10:00 o'clock running the length of the chamber!

I think that's exactly what's happened. Like Cinders says, it wouldn't hurt. A separated casing isn't something that just falls out for the most part. You have to use the correct tool or you'll damage your chamber. If the chamber is .30 cal and ammo won't quite go all the way in, that's what's up I'll bet.

I think I may go ahead and get a broken shell extractor. Im also going to get a chamber cast sometime next week to. Time to play the waiting game. I'll make sure to post the results once I get the cast.

The mark at 10:00 is just a piece of fuzz from a q-tip. The camera I have can only focus on certain distances and the rest of the picture becomes blurry.

The SMLE shooters had a way to get a head separations out without a case extractor but not recommended but borne of the need to get the weapon back into service following the round failing, and that is to push another round with the bolt into the stuck one jamming the live round into the stuck case, pull the bolt back and get the two of them to a point where they can be flicked out with the fingers.
It is fraught with danger and only a war time expedient.

And only works part of the time. I had one I could bang the butt and it would fall out...this one apparently not...

I have 2 1917 extractors that do not have the gas vent hole drilled in the tip. Both of these extractors have the letters "CV" stamped on the underside, indicating they are chrome vanadium steel. Perhaps the CV marked extractors were made under contract during WW II to rebuild 1917's. Maybe the experts will know.

You should be able to determine if you have brass remaining in the throat of your rifle by inserting a long, narrow screw driver or cleaning rod minus the tip into the chamber. The tool should catch the edge of any brass and produce an audible click. Check out the Youtube videos for HOW-TO's on broken shell extraction.

I'd use the proper tool...if I were you.

The exterior of the rifle looks pretty rusty. It's quite possibly there's rust build up down in the neck area of the chamber as well. Give the chamber a good scrubbing and see what happens.

Take an EMPTY fully-sized 30-06 case. Use vernier calipers to check that the overall length is not even the tiniest bit more than 63.35mm / 2.494".

Use a felt pen to ink over the neck and shoulder region - including the mouth of the case!!
Allow to dry for some seconds.
Insert the empty case into the chamber. Remove the extractor from the bolt. Replace the bolt in the rifle and close it.
Does it close?
If not, then try very hard to close it.
Open the action and remove the case. Since the extractor has been removed, you will have to knock it out with a (cleaning?) rod.

Look at the mouth of the case under an eyeglass. If you can see a bright line on the case mouth, maybe with the mouth very slightly forced inwards, then ....

.... you really do have a short chamber. :thdown::thdown::thdown:
(If you see bright-lining somewhere else, then you know where to look.)

Cause:
1) EITHER there is a foreign body in there, such as a shard from a fractured case,
or:
2) The chamber is too short.

Solution for 1) Get it out. :thup:

Explanation for 2) The barrel is not original, or has been rechambered. For instance, when Bubba wanted to cure a worn throat by shortening the barrel 1 turn. And messed up when recutting the chamber. :thdown::thdown::thdown:

Solution: you will have to have the barrel properly rechambered. Running in a chamber reamer to the correct depth may be all that is required.:thup:

Fantasy? Not quite. I have experienced something similar with an '03. In that case, the chamber was ridiculously long. The "Khyber Pass" look of the completely non-original extractor is a good indication that someone has messed around with this rifle.

It only takes an empty case and a felt pen - try it.

As a quick reference guide whilst you have the felt pen in your hand mark the base at say 12:00 and then orienteer this mark vertically I E mark on the top side in the chamber that way you have a reference point as to where there may be an issue in the chamber and go from there with Patricks suggestions.

Could there be a .308 chamber adapter in it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jamie5070

.308 chamber adapter

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The ruptured cartridge tool would sort that out too, exact same symptom and ruptured casing...

Im going to give a +1 on a .308 chamber adapter. I cycled some .308 snap caps through the gun and they seem to work just fine. Im not throwing in the towel to .308 fully yet.

On Tuesday, or maybe Thursday, im going to get a chamber cast at a gunsmith 10 minutes away from me just to be sure.

A classic. Never marked as that either. Still can be changed back without too much effort.

Guy's, look again very carefully at his chamber pic. The way it looks to me, there is part of the neck of a casing stuck in the neck area of the chamber. Anybody else see this??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jakester

The way it looks to me, there is part of the neck of a casing stuck in the neck area of the chamber. Anybody else see this??

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Could well be. Looks a bit sharp for the end of the neck section. The test I suggested is so simple that it should be tried first, before looking for special tools and speculating further.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jakester

the neck of a casing

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

Could well be

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Is that not what I said in post 7? Oh, I get it...you guys don't understand separated casing...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Oh, I get it...you guys don't understand separated casing...

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Duuhh?? Wassat??

Oh, do you mean something like this?:)

Attachment 54305

Actually Jim, if you read my post carefully, you will see that at no time did I disagree with you, but kept an open mind and said it could be either a case fragment or a Bubbaed rechambering, since I have experienced both. What I am really hoping for is that we all stop speculating until the original poster finally conducts the utterly simple test that I proposed and finds out which it is. And if it is a bit of casing, then I agree with you that he should get the proper tool - as shown above.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goessb170677

On Tuesday, or maybe Thursday, im going to get a chamber cast at a gunsmith 10 minutes away from me just to be sure.

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If there is a case fragment (of which my photo shows a particularly nasty example) then the casting material will flow in and solidify in front of the fragment, making it impossible to get it out again without removing the action from the stock and melting it out! And if you drive it out, there will be a ring of casting material left between the front of the fragment and the start of the transition cone. I fear that you may be about to spend money to make matters worse.

If my deduction is wrong, then I am happy to be enlightened, but until then, please remember KISS, and make the simple test that I recommended.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

stop speculating until the original poster finally conducts the utterly simple test that I proposed

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Agreed.

I am of the neck separation but really did not want to say anything as is not the transition from the leede to the rifling not as defined as what we see at the end of this weapons chamber anyway we will wait till the owner has the things done and they will report back as I am sure all we have at heart is the safety of the buyer/end user and that this person can get the weapon up and running and have some funnnnnn........like me tomorrow :dancingbanana:

ok..heres some observations...i see a broken case in the chamber...
put the barreled action in a freezer over night. and then the case will be easier to get out..
second.
barrel has been changed by someone with less then correct tools...notice the pipe wrench marks on the barrel at the chamber area...i would also check for a cracked receiver while your playing with the rifle BEFORE YOU FIRE IT..

---------- Post added at 06:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:49 AM ----------

other observation...the 7-18 date, doesnt match the serial, however, i cant make out whats above the bomb marking on the barrel, id bet its a W {Winchester} is the a VP in a circle on the barrel? if so, that would tell me for sure...
Winchester barrels, are known for over and undersized chambers...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chuckindenver

put the barreled action in a freezer over night

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Forgot about that method...

originally that was put in dry ice...since i dont like paying high dollars for that, in the chest freezer has worked well, the brass shrinks down more then the steel, and it usually falls out..works well for case stuck in a die as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chuckindenver

case stuck in a die as well

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I have that tool also, but that would have been priceless during the early '80s when I didn't...

just had to use it the other day...darn my luck

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goessb170677

It's possible. I don't really see anything abnormal in the chamber though. Im thinking about leaving a good amount of something like Break Free in the barrel overnight to see if it breaks up anything still left on the inside.

I took a picture while looking down the barrel, if this helps in any way.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d11a3JPG-1.jpg

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Looks to me like there is a case head in there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ssj

case head

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Case neck...the head is at the primer end.

When all else fails, send it to Chuckindenver.

If you can borrow a broken shell extractor try putting it in the chamber and see what happens. if there's a case neck in there you'll be able to pull itout.

A Cerrosafe chamber casting that extends into the throat slightly beyond the end of the chamber will easily remove any stuck case without risking damage to the chamber walls.

M

Did you have it checked for proper headspace by a gunsmith, during the rearsenal process barrels get changed out. Sometimes they get turned in to far, there is a witness mark on the underside of the barrel and chamber to align. You also may have some gunk built up in the chamber, chuck in a chamber brush on a short rod and clean the chamber well with your favorite cleaner. FWIW.

Get the serial number off the receiver, there is a site that crosses the date on the barrel to the serial number. Last I remember no more that a couple months difference.

At least its a clue on a home barrel job.

U.S. Military Dates of Manufacture

Works if its an Eddystone, if not go to the core site and put in Winchester or Remington.

Example: I have a barreled action that receiver date is November of 1918. I know the barrel was a civilian barrel but even if not, its date is 6-1918, ergo even if I did not know it was an R barrel that were never put on E receivers I would know it was a civilian barrel change, Military never did that.

Base Data: U.S. Military Dates of Manufacture