Around again.
4T - £8K!
L42 - £11K!
Twice fired Nr4's £1.5K!
Out of my pocket
I dont think I have seen a true Enforcer in the last three fairs.
Or have I missed a degree or two of firearms inflation recently?
John
Printable View
Around again.
4T - £8K!
L42 - £11K!
Twice fired Nr4's £1.5K!
Out of my pocket
I dont think I have seen a true Enforcer in the last three fairs.
Or have I missed a degree or two of firearms inflation recently?
John
I suppose the true test of inflation is whether they were actually selling at those prices?:eek:
Didn't get down there myself, where there any nice SMLEs?
Regards
Mike
Even with full CES thats a bit OTT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnr527
L42's seem to (occasionally) be advertised at that sort of price (mine was) but was purchased for a fair bit less.
I'd have put a complete matching No4T + CES at £4 - £5k top
No doubt they will soon be actually selling at the 'Bisley prices'
I thought that the No.4 SKL had a good price at £195 and Chris Smith had a pristine Webley Mk.IV - at a pristine price. Ammo Zone was not as cheap as he has been. Finally not as many tables as usual. I wonder if they are all waiting for next week's arms fair.
The HBSA Section 7 Exhibition was well attended both by exhibitors and visitors. Some immaculate Lanchesters on show and TWO nickel Fosberrys, plus a .380 auto Fosberry! From three different collectors.
Not only did we show our pistols and revolvers but we were able to offer advice to several visitor about Section 7.
There is a genuine low-number Enforcer in the Veranda with Ken - price c.£1500.
The 4(T) and L42 are so priced at the owner's request; the 4(T) is way over the top, but the L42 price is close to a couple of recent UK sales.
Customers are mostly to blame for those crazy prices; why do people insist on buying from the most outrageously expensive vendors? Just why would you go and pay £1500 for a mint unused No4 Mk2 when an identical one was £550 on the next table?! I kindly briefed one chap - buying his first .303 - on every No4 at the fair. He got some honest advice from a couple of other dealers as well - but then went and paid about £700 for a right bag of bits with a glossy label.... Oh well, you can try and help people, but...
Sold my 4T into a guy in Holland who wanted it. Full CES totally all original £4500 and I thought that was tops and a very fair price to him, especially as he lived in Arnhem too boot.
Perhaps I should have kept hold of it if it was twice as much, there are some dreamers about:lol::lol:
I have seen several L42s for sale recently all around this price, Richard in Devizes has a nice one at just under £11K, I had a look at the one in the arms fair a few weeks ago and is of similar condition the one at the fair also has the L42 Lens Cleaning Brush Container as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbox
Full Bore Rifles - The Devizes Gunsmith
---------- Post added at 11:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:41 AM ----------
Thats the problem, if you sell your stock at reasonable prices, other dealers just buy them from you and add a few £100 and sell them quite easily at these ridiculous prices, then everyone thinks their guns are worth the same type of money, an example of this is, a chap brought in a nice Envoy on wednesday and thought that it was worth £900 trade to buy it in from him....Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbox
Thats why I am now very select to which dealers I trade with.
MikeQuote:
Originally Posted by Gingercat
Dont know much about SMLEs but I think I caught a glimpse of one fitted up with a Winchester A5 scope on off-set mounts - looked very interesting but I was distracted before I could check it out.
John
Thought Richards was a tad overpriced myself. But heyho, if he gets £11K for it as it is, it will set the bench mark for the rest of us with full CES then!!!
I thought it had gone back to Bisley as unsold or have I got the wrong one (deceaseds sale)??
Asking prices do tend to rise rather than recede, particularly where no more of a particular item are being made. I have seen a marked increase in realised prices over recent years however I too think 8K for a 4T a little optimistic today, but maybe not in a year or so at the current rate (I have shifted one for 6K but that was the exception, 4K tends to be more usual). I have sold 7 L42's in the last 2 years with prices ranging from 6K to 12K, barrel condition and shooting prowess has been of more concern to prospective purchasers than CES interestingly...
As for standard No4's - £1,500 for "proofed only" examples again appears a little steep but then for the chap actually looking to buy one with cash in his pocket rather than others of us sitting back and commenting on it maybe they look attractive? The last "old stock" new barrels I have seen offered were £500 a piece, buy a clapped rifle for £300, buy a new barrel, get someone to fit it for you, headspace, proof and adjust the bedding to suit, suddenly the cost is creeping up. The first No4 I bought cost me £275.00 and it had a mint bore - at the same time a litre of diesel cost me 60p and I was earning £150.00 a week......
---------- Post added at 05:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 PM ----------
And no Gil, none of my L42's have or had gone back to Bisley or anywhere else for that matter, thanks for your interest though.
Richard,
No worries, hope you get a sale, I suppose if one has got unit provenance it should fetch upper figures, which ultimately helps the price of rifles to climb especially when there were'nt that many converted at the start.
I happened to get offered a Gurkha L42 which was a deceased's property last year must be more out there on offer.
Welcome aboad Richard. Like a member on this forum used to say. Everything is cheap......... yesterday!
Thanks Pete!
Gill, I think what we are seeing is a flurry of sales of L42's from their "first" owners - many other potential owners have been wanting for years.... I imagine it will die down again soon and then in a few years there will be another jump and we will all be saying things like "I remember when they were 11K!" thats just how it goes I'm afraid.
I recently bought something very special to me for what I would think is twice market value - I wanted it and the seller needed convincing to part with it - does that make every other example worth what I paid? Of course not, so you have to factor personal attachment/desire in as well, many dealers are also collectors (I'm sure thats a shock to everyone...) and they may put a price on stock that makes it "worth" parting with.... Just my thoughts on it.
There were indeed some tidy SMLE's there. The person with the SMLE/Winchester A5 had several WW1 snipers - all assembled using reproduction mounts - though he is quite open about this & was not trying to pass them off as genuine. There would have been some Whitehead Brothers mounts there on Saturday for anybody who wants to make up a SMLE/A5..........except I forgot to take them...........
Richard,
Yes welcome to the site.
I have to accept the price is what it is, and reflects a true "buyers market".
L42's and Enforcer's are much sort after rifles and do reach dizzy heights in value on occasion due to their rarity in availability and completeness too.
Long may that continue as each has to be graded on individual condition and provenance ;)
Did you spot any fake enforcers at the fair Thunderbox?
Had a walk around the show after shooting on Saturday, some empty tables and thought prices in general seemed higher than I was expecting. Not looking for rifles only ammo and reloading supplies, but then spotted some nice WW1 dated Smle's and not over priced, which I have a few in my collection + No4's & an Envoy. Then found another trader who seemed to deal only in Enfields how can he justify his prices, do not know if he sold anything.
A good day :thup:
I spotted an Enforcer late on Sunday, outside in the conservatory part. Something like Serial No93, Gwent Police, gave it a quick once over looked fine with correct bipod, iron sights, numbered mag, apart from having the wrong Pecar on it, had something like a 36mm objective lens. Was a commission sale with an asking price of £1500
If it was 093 it was Glasgow that had that one if that helps;)
Thanks Gill,
the chap definately said Gwent Police so I must have the number wrong..... Slightly :-)
It was 95 Gwent.
Selling it for a friend.
Yes Gwent Police did indeed have 095 from 26/5/74;)
Was there ever an Enforcer "used in anger", and if so, which constabularies and when?
They were widely used at the Iranian Embassy Siege - they were even bought in (along with their 'drivers') from other forces to make up the numbers needed for the rooftop coverage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surpmil
There are a number of photo's on the web - the most well known one being :
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Enforcer-1.jpg
If you mean did an Enforcer actually kill someone, that information would not be available. (They may possibly have done during the 'troubles' in Northen Ireland)
............ Which probably amply illustrates the misuse of the words Police Snipers! Only a Poluce 'sniper' would be so exposed on a rooftop! An Army sniper would be holed up INSIDE, invisible
Thanks, I do remember seeing that photo of the Prince's Gate incident. Since I don't own an ENFORCER it's only an academic interest, but was reminded of this by the L42/Falklands thread. Thought it might interest the owners to know whether their rifles were ever deployed on an actual incident; if that can be determined. The issue of whether anyone was killed might be of interest to some people I suppose, but not to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield
Alan,
Didn't you poll the UK Forces under the Freedom Of Information Act to see how many times they were used?
I daresay that they may have been used to tackle an escaped bull on occasion. As to used in anger, I suppose it depends if the call interrupted lunch or similar for the firearms team.
The other TV coverage of or with clips of the Enforcer was during the Police manhunt for murderer Barry Prudom in 1982, it was Ex Para and survivalist Eddie McGee who led the police to his hideout....I remember a documentary few years ago about it.
I did ask a number of question under the FOL Act, the results were (shall we say) 'mixed' with some forces denying ever having had Enforcers (despite me having copies of the Enfield sales ledger, giving me delivery dates, serial numbers and invoice numbers), other forces telling me they were all crushed/gas-axed when I know of 5 of their rifles in civilian hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
One force told me that they coldnt tell me the serial numbers of the rifles they used to have in case I cloned the rifle, shot somene and it turned out that it was a police rifle - I eventually told them the serial numbers of the rifles they had purchased but they would not confirm.
Some forces gave me chapter & verse - the Met were very good.
All in all a pretty useless exercise.
A Glasow Police Force Firearms Officer was issued with Enforcer No 173 - he was seconded down to London with his rifle for the Iranian Embassy Siege - thats one rifle we know was there.
Certainly used in our Force on three occasions to my knowledge, when upset Bulls escaped from an abatoir into a town centre causing loads of damage and a real threat to life.
7.62mm unbelievably ineffective but always used first.........solid slug shotgun did the business though and spoilt the bulls day.
However, always a dodgy solution where people roam, a hard call to make but one that needed taking;)