My new Lithgow, New Zealand contract L1A1

Morning all, the latest addition to my Straight pull L1A1 collection is complete!

I procured the parts kit from a well known major dealer here in the UK (to remain anonymous) and had it transferred to Neal Parnam at Suffolk rifles, now I know Neal's standard of work well as he built up my first 1962 Enfield L1A1 and he didn't disappoint with this build, the barrel is very heavy in profile behind the handguards and is a real work of art, quite superb engineering!

My rifle was manufactured in 1964, one of 2198 rifles sold to New Zealand that year, it was probably allocated to the RNZAF, as most of the 1964 allocation appears to have been issued to the Airforce from what I have read.

I provided Neal with a rough set of Brit plastics to build up the rifle and get it through proof, but as soon as I got her home she was whisked into the workshop for fitting out! Restored Lithgow Coachwood butt and pistol grip, followed by the quite rare first pattern flat rivet Laminate handguards and topped off with the NZ pattern carry handle.

I have also fitted an L2A2 SUIT and Hythe sight assembly including foresight, both need reactivating as the tritium vile's have expired, just haven't got round to it yet!

This final fit spec, (including the black paint work) would be correct for a NZ service rifle in approx 1978-81 "ish" I think.

Oh yes, also the 37 pattern sling, pull through and oil bottle were all procured from a friend in NZ.......Yep, I am that OCD when it comes to my milsurps!

All in all very pleased and looking forward to getting her onto the range, a big thank you to Neal Parnham and all who contributed to my project.

Do I 'Know' those Handguards Johnny?..................;) LOL

When I was at RNZAF Whenuapai and Ohakea in 1969 they were fully armed with No4's! I'm not sure that you will be able to reactivate the tritium vials in the foresight as they are a one-way trip job. They were made by Saunders Roe on the Isle of Wight as I seem to remember. They were doing a few tritium thinggies for us including the GAP markers for the mortars. But it was a nice day out/jolly on the Army

That SUIT sight....... Shooter Usually In Trouble! Nice to see an L1A1 again. Makes you realise what a nice looking rifle it was. Just thinking to myself whether it had any vices. I don't think it did really. You can't blame the SUIT on the rifle can you?

Does anyone remember towards the end of its life, that the pointed foresight locking screw was in desperately short supply for some reason? Dues out* was about 10 years! There was a modification to modify the similar threaded and apparently plentiful SCREW, retaining locking latch lever to suit.

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

My rifle was manufactured in 1964, one of 2198 rifles sold to New Zealand that year, it was probably allocated to the RNZAF, as most of the 1964 allocation appears to have been issued to the Airforce from what I have read.

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I had one of those. AD64..... Now I know...

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Originally Posted by tankhunter

Do I 'Know' those Handguards Johnny?..................;) LOL

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Yep, you sure do Mike, they restored very nicely indeed, that horrible varnish finish was removed from all the woodwork and it it was returned to its correct oil finish, it looks so much better now, I hate varnish on a military rifle!

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

When I was at RNZAF Whenuapai and Ohakea in 1969 they were fully armed with No4's! I'm not sure that you will be able to reactivate the tritium vials in the foresight as they are a one-way trip job. They were made by Saunders Roe on the Isle of Wight as I seem to remember. They were doing a few tritium thinggies for us including the GAP markers for the mortars. But it was a nice day out/jolly on the Army

That SUIT sight....... Shooter Usually In Trouble! Nice to see an L1A1 again. Makes you realise what a nice looking rifle it was. Just thinking to myself whether it had any vices. I don't think it did really. You can't blame the SUIT on the rifle can you?

Does anyone remember towards the end of its life, that the pointed foresight locking screw was in desperately short supply for some reason? Dues out* was about 10 years! There was a modification to modify the similar threaded and apparently plentiful SCREW, retaining locking latch lever to suit.

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Morning Peter, I have been looking closely at the foresight and as you say, the vile is "in there" not designed to be replaced, why would the Army bother I suppose. I would imagine the foresight was a stop gap, stepping stone, toward a more effective dusk system anyway.

I did consider painting the vile with this as a work around 30ml Glow In The Dark Luminescent Luminous paint - Choose a colour - 30ml size | eBay

It would work for the foresight blade, but not the SUIT as it couldn't be re-changed with sunlight.

I have been looking high and low for the spring and fixing for this pattern of foresight, just can't find them anywhere. Failing that, I will replace it with the second pattern, if I can find one!

Are yopu sure that tritium can be 'recharged' with sunlight or even a bright light? I'm not a chemist but I think that is radium you're thinking about. I think the technical word for that sunlight recharging was described as 'as dim as a toc H lamp'

We used to practice dawn-to-light and dusk-to-dark shooting in training for/with 8 RAR going to SVn in 1969. We heard about the new Hythe backsights and the 'new' foresights that you would twist to suit the larger rearsight aperture but never saw one until I got back to England.

Maybe Muffer can tell us when they came on stream in Australia. I don't know what the ratio for Hythe v normal sights was but the usual REME ratio was probably 0% Hythe, 100% normal!

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

Yep, you sure do Mike, they restored very nicely indeed, that horrible varnish finish was removed from all the woodwork and it it was returned to its correct oil finish, it looks so much better now, I hate varnish on a military rifle!

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Varnish should NEVER be used on Firearm Furniture in any case! Wood is a living medium, & if You varnish it. It cannot 'Breath'. It needs to be supple to absorb minor knocks & reform to it's normal surface shape.
After rubbing down & striking off. BOILED (NOT 'Normal') Linseed oil should be liberally worked into the wood surface. I used to let butt stocks stand upright in a bowl of the stuff. To allow the wood grain to absorb it by 'sucking' it up!

If the wood on a butt for example. Is allowed to dry out. It becomes very brittle. & it only takes an accidental drop of the rifle on it's butt. To split it up a fair way, or break a chunk out! :move eek::move eek:

You cannot equal the lovely feel when handling. Or indeed the Asthetic appeal of wooden furniture on a weapon! ;)

Hate to tell you this but the fore stock on your rifle is not the original pattern but the replacement variety. The original pattern was solid timber (coachwood) and was shaped in a triangular fashion and in my opnion much better than the plywood replacement as shown on your rifle.

Further to tankies thread 8....... Just try shooting one with varnished handguards/pistol grip in the monsoon or when your hands are dripping with sweat. THen you'll know all about the meaning of natural wood!

Couldn't agree more, I have restored quite a few British L1A1 wood sets and about half have been heavily varnished in the past, why .... who knows .... It looks dreadful on any military rifle, Personally though, I use raw linseed oil, quite a few coatings and a final hand buff to finish.

I will give you a call next week for a catch up mate, been ridiculously busy!

While I agree with you on the look of the triangular two slot handguards, the reason this rifle is fitted out like this, is that I already have an Enfield L1A1 in wood, (including the two slot triangular forend and wood carry handle), so I wanted my Lithgow to represent a rifle in the latter period of its service.

I quite like the look and feel of the Laminate.

You can thank the British for the Laminated Handguards, Lithgow got examples from England and the first ones made by them used British metal fittings and I think the laminate was British as well as the material isn't the same as the later "Mark 2 Laminated" handguards

Anyone know when the laminates first came out? I first saw the laminated handguards on British pool supplied L1A1's in Malaya in 1967. Saw them slowly coming in as spare parts in Australia in 68 or 69 but we still had stocks of the originals too. We had been told that we were getting new handguards made from PAXOLIN, the stuff that No7 bayonet grips are pressed out from. Good idea but they'd have been tooooo slippery unless they were roughened up

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Anyone know when the laminates first came out? I first saw the laminated handguards on British pool supplied L1A1's in Malaya in 1967. Saw them slowly coming in as spare parts in Australia in 68 or 69 but we still had stocks of the originals too. We had been told that we were getting new handguards made from PAXOLIN, the stuff that No7 bayonet grips are pressed out from. Good idea but they'd have been tooooo slippery unless they were roughened up

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I think trials were completed in 1966 and general issue to store in 1967, someone involved in the trials told me a few years back, can't remember who now.

Out of interest Peter, did you have any Canadian C1's in the Warminster collection?

I have set myself (the probably impossible task) of locating a C1A1 kit and building it up to complete my live Commonwealth Fal collection..

Enfield 1962 and Lithgow 1964 in the bag so far, anyone got a lead on a C1A1 receiver kit?

Yep, we did have a couple of Canadian C1's at Warminster. Thje odd thing is that of the thousands and thousands that I saw, I could recognise the Australian one of course that'd come from the large pooled stores stockpiles in the Far East, but don't think I saw a Canadian on in service even thoug we had pooled Ordnance stocks in Germany (or was that just pooled ammo supplies) but the weapon stocks were pooled for UN duties in Cyprus (?BAR, comment). Those handguard dates certainly equate to when I started to see them but KtK will come on stream and tell us the exact date!

They were certainly more robust than the solid wood versions that were nothing but trouble. They used to split forwards from the screw holes which was a reasonably simple cut-out and patch repair or just a slip patch. But if the threaded insert started to rotate with the screw, that meant the handguard was scrap. What a waste and dues-out (the wait for stores) was months ahead due to the backlog! The rear used to split along the thin part alongside the rear end of the gas tube/carrying handle nut. You COULD repair this bit if you were bored witless but I don't know anyone who did it except as apprentices. I did do one on a nice looking deact for someone recently but under duress followed by a nice bottle........

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

but the weapon stocks were pooled for UN duties in Cyprus (?BAR, comment).

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Until we started discussing this a few years back Peter, I had no idea you had used ours and we(?) had used yours. Even on overseas duty, I never saw a UK or Assie rifle in our stores. Never saw or even heard of a non Canadian serial number in passing. It would have been talked about by the troops...eg, I knew of serial 0L0004, and 0L 0001...anything unusual. I knew of rifles that had been tested for Rockwell, and (RC)MP issue/return rifles. I never saw foreign parts on our rifles either. Perhaps they were culled upon initial inspection by the armorers. They would have to be examined upon delivery before acceptance.

Lithgow received samples of the British Laminated Handguard components and manufacturing instructions around September 1967. Where Lithgow SAF utilized British made components to assemble their first Laminated Handguards, these handguards don't have the typical makers marking 'BS' on them. The production version (Mark 1) are marked with BS and a two digit date BS68 or BS69. Then in 1969 the Mark 2 version with the standard type rivets became the standard.

Those dates all fit in nicely.

Re the pooled stores issue BAR. Ther were certainly all repaired at the big Base workshops in Wetter in Germany but maybe the small arms weren't pooled as such. But all our ammo was from pooled stocks. Like you, I never saw or noticed a Canadian rifle in our service.

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Originally Posted by tankhunter

I used to let butt stocks stand upright in a bowl of the stuff. To allow the wood grain to absorb it by 'sucking' it up!

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Never thought of that! Thank you!

Fellows: It's a "vial", not "vile", which means something else entirely.

M

Maybe he's got a vile foresight blade Mike!

Looks great MrClark. I have been thinking of getting a F.A.L also. Cheers.

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

Morning all, the latest addition to my Straight pull L1A1 collection is complete!

I procured the parts kit from a well known major dealer here in the UK (to remain anonymous) and had it transferred to Neal Parnam at Suffolk rifles, now I know Neal's standard of work well as he built up my first 1962 Enfield L1A1 and he didn't disappoint with this build, the barrel is very heavy in profile behind the handguards and is a real work of art, quite superb engineering!

My rifle was manufactured in 1964, one of 2198 rifles sold to New Zealand that year, it was probably allocated to the RNZAF, as most of the 1964 allocation appears to have been issued to the Airforce from what I have read.

I provided Neal with a rough set of Brit plastics to build up the rifle and get it through proof, but as soon as I got her home she was whisked into the workshop for fitting out! Restored Lithgow Coachwood butt and pistol grip, followed by the quite rare first pattern flat rivet Laminate handguards and topped off with the NZ pattern carry handle.

I have also fitted an L2A2 SUIT and Hythe sight assembly including foresight, both need reactivating as the tritium vile's have expired, just haven't got round to it yet!

This final fit spec, (including the black paint work) would be correct for a NZ service rifle in approx 1978-81 "ish" I think.

Oh yes, also the 37 pattern sling, pull through and oil bottle were all procured from a friend in NZ.......Yep, I am that OCD when it comes to my milsurps!

All in all very pleased and looking forward to getting her onto the range, a big thank you to Neal Parnham and all who contributed to my project.

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Originally Posted by MGMike

Fellows: It's a "vial", not "vile", which means something else entirely.

M

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Well, I am amazed its taken so long to spot the deliberate mistake, well done Mike:lol:

---------- Post added at 11:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 AM ----------

Cheers mate, finally off to the range with her tomorrow, I will report back..

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Originally Posted by MGMike

Fellows: It's a "vial", not "vile", which means something else entirely.

M

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It's OK Mike. You wont get 'Vial-ified' for it on here! :madsmile: