A few thoughts on butt patching !

Take two Mk2 Bren butts........ Totally battered, bruised, oil soaked, split, cracked and damaged to the point of no return, ready for fire-wood Inglis Mk2 Bren butts. But you start with what you’ve got and what you aim for. As you’ll see at the end of this little pictorial essay, they were actually worse than I thought – or I bit off more than I could chew. Take your pick!

That said, the idea of this snap shot into wood patching on your milsurp is that there’s only one way to do it and that’s properly. That way the patches will last a lifetime. I have done some of these in a wood that illustrates what I’m on about. Naturally it’s better if YOU do it, to select a colour that matches more evenly – or stain afterwards. I mention elsewhere that there’s really two schools of thought when it comes to patching wood on rifles or other weapons. There’s those safe-queen fiends who look at them and comment ‘.....ugh....., look at those patches’ and then turn their noses up. Then there’s those who comment ‘..... wow...., look at those patches.....’ then comment on the quality and effort that’s gone into bringing something that’s had a hard life back from the brink – as in these clapped-out Inglis Bren butts.

And there’s something else too. There are sometimes isolated dings, dints and severe bruising that you can’t actually patch (see photo 014 and 21) as such, but it’s there! You can try steam-raising the grain and then scraping or levelling to make good but always keep sight of the fact that it WILL settle down again just as sure as eggs is eggs......

Anyhow, here goes. Where was I now..... Oh yes, take two (but three later) clapped out fit for firewood Inglis Bren butts. Incidentally, these Mk2 Bren butts are great examples to practice on. They’re flat, parallel, slab sided with gentle curves and only a few intricate shapes to worry you.


http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...atch%20009.JPG
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The two butts in question after they’d been dunked in the hot tricho tank. You can see that a couple of the old patches had fallen straight out. BUT, they wouldn’t have if they’d been pegged too!


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Long split here along the top of the wrist. The split is drilled and pegged at the end. The old slip patch has been substituted by what we call a ‘tapered dovetail’. It’s pretty clear pictorially and verbally what a tapered dovetail is. What it doesn’t tell you is how difficult they are to achieve and how pointless they are on rifle woodwork. But we had to do a few of them during our apprenticeships – and I haven’t done one since before today! Ok....., Ok....., just showing off a skill that I haven’t forgotten.

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Both butts patched at the wrists. Notice the hand-made tapered oak pegs. Pegs are always made of oak. This ensures that they’re a tight and a secure fit in the holes when they are knocked in. See the normal but slightly wider walnut slip patch and the oak tapered dovetail. The split has also been opened slightly and wood glue squeezed into it. It is important to clamp the butt as the glue dries. You’ll also see the heel patches cut out, ready to go.......


http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...atch%20007.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...atch%20008.JPG

If the butt is split along the underside remember that there’s more meat there and instead of a slip patch or two you can open up the split, squeeze glue into it and insert a crosswise dowel that you’ll see in the picture


http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...atch%20012.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...atch%20014.JPG

The heel patches of both guns accurately fitted, glued and clamped in place. 1 oak and 1 plumb from an old tree in my garden.


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The earlier wrist slip patches and pegs cut back ready to work with a rasp and file


http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...atch%20015.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...atch%20016.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...atch%20019.JPG

The wrist patch ready to work and butt patch ready for plugging. Note again the hand-made tapered plugs ready, glued and then knocked in quite deeply


http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...atch%20017.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...atch%20018.JPG

Wrist patches rasped down ready to be scraped down and made off


http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...atch%20021.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...atch%20022.JPG

The wrist and heel patches made off, wood scraped and carefully sanded using a flat sanding block


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It didn’t end there as one butt was badly dinged at the toe too. So that had to be patched too. Nothing special here, just a repeat of the two heel patches


http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...atch%20023.JPG
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Here’s one I did earlier. A double slip patch using old walnut taken from an old SMLE butt. Necessary? Or just double the work?


http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...atch%20024.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...atch%20025.JPG

A little tacit modification. A strip of steel recessed and screwed in place to prevent further damage to the toe of the butt during rigorous use.


http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...atch%20026.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...atch%20027.JPG

What is this little mark? A little stylised, curly W within a ½” or so circle.


Last but not least, cutting out the top recess for the tang of the butt plate. This a job best left for when you have to fit the actual butt plate. It could be the overhung Mk2 type or the simple squared off Mk3 type. In real life, the overhung butt plates were a recipe for more work as the moment you put the gun down heavily – as the crunchies are prone to do - on the butt, the overhang would hit the ground, send the tang into the undercut wood and bend the screw. If you are going to re-use this overhung butt plate then can I advise you NOT to undercut the wood but just leave the exposed tang sat on top. Or better still, heat the butt plate, flatten the top section out and simply convert it to the squared-off Mk3 type. Or even better still, what Armourers have been doing in BAOR since the 50’s. Just flatten the Mk2 or 3 butt plate out and using a Mk5 butt plate (the butt plate from the Mk3 gun don’t forget.....) as a template drill and countersink an additional butt plate screw hole, round the top off to suit the shape of the repaired butt and be done with it!

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Here is a pic of what I believe one of the markings is:

It's been suggested to me that it is a Dutch, Belgian or French inspectors marking.

Nice work Peter! :thup: Denny Billborough (Rifles Instructor at one of our R.E.M.E Training Establishments) would have been proud of you Mate! LOL.

I enjoy patching when I have the time. Of course it as different in Service. When you HAD to do it & had many of the Begger's to repair! :lol:
Usually though, I used to chuck 'em all in a tea chest after fitting new ones to in service weapons to save time. (When your doing a whole Battalion's worth of LMG's in six monthly inspection & repair programme. That's a LOT of work!!!...)

So when we had 'Down time'. IE: All equipment was on the road & serviceable for it's intended role. We could then patch & repair the Butts, & refinish them.
So they would be returned to the spares shelf. ready to be refitted again, to any needy 'recipients' in the next inspection/ repair Trawl!

This was also the practice for just about any wooden furniture fitted Smallarm. Then came Plastic. Which changed the way things were done.
But, That is another Story!.............:madsmile:

Peter & other Brother Armourers on here. Will attest this was common practice during our respective service time. :)

That COULD be the other marking LE but you've definately hit the nail on the head with the little 1/2" round CWA mark.

Captain Laidler, what an elegant piece of artwork -- the craftsman/artisan embodied in the Armourer. Thanks for the graphics, and especially the detail on both cutting the dovetails and clamping.

I might add a technique I've learned from wooden boat restoration when having to fill a hole (gouged wood, etc.) The typical way is to bore out the gouge into a round hole with a drill (preferably a drill press). Most people then fill the hole with a dowel, glue, cut, and sand.

However, a dowel leaves endgrain exposed, so the grain pattern doesn't match the grain of the wood surrounding the hole, and the endgrain always stains darker.

The solution (also used for filling countersunk screw holes) is to bore the hole with a Forstner bit (which cuts a flush/flat hole) then use a "plug cutter" which cuts a plug the size of the hole; ensure you cut the plug from a piece of wood whose grain is a very near match to the piece you are filling.
See this YouTube for an illustration:
Home Remodeling Tools : How to Use a Plug Cutter - YouTube

Because the plug's grain is a near match for the repaired wood, the result is that the patch is very hard to spot, except when viewed up close. This is especially important with woods like walnut that have an iridescent quality which makes it doubly difficult to match.

******
As a footnote: Forstner bits were invented by Benjamin Forstner, a 19th century gunsmith and used extensively by gunsmiths in North America, and then by furniture makers. They prized it for its ability to bore a smooth-sided hole in woodwork into which a plug will fit perfectly with very close tolerances. Many of the plug cutters cut a tapered plug that serves the same purpose as a tapered dowel in filling a hole tightly. However, the plugs are not substitutes for dowels, such as those used by Captain Laider in the pics above, which are used as structural anchors.

I get that seaspriter and have used that method in an early thread about removing and covering up the Ishapore screw holes. Also used it to cover up some grotty screw hole 'repairs' on a Thompson gun butt. The trouble on one of these Bren butt and occasionally other ex military stuff is that there will be a long gouge (see R/H photo in group 5) where the gun has, say rolled or slid along the floor of a lorry and caused longitudinal damage. It was this damage that caused me to make comment about such in the article. Sometimes the item is what it is.

To be honest, these butts were really well past their useful life but now they've been really made good and oiled could probably be used for another 70 years! But you'll still get the same responses of 'ugh.....' from the show queens and 'wow.....' from the Armourers! I didn't really like butt patching or woodwork generally when it was foisted upon me as just another days work but I have to say I enjoyed doing this for the forum

I for one love seeing good repairs. I'm trying to learn to do this. Each one has been getting better and I've been taking on some very hard ones (a broken in half at the wrist Ross M10 sporter is the latest one and it has been tough!). Very fun and can be very rewarding.

been reading an tring to learn what i can may i ask what types of glue i have not seen the name yet .Thanks Mike

Can someone explain why the butts on our beloved Lee Enfields need so much patching? Clearly the butt plate, being incised lower than the stock caused the splits. Why didn't the top of the butt stock get shaved down to be flush with the butt plate? The only historic guns I own with this problem are my Lee Enfields; and, upon counting, 40% of my LE collection has had butt repairs.

Do we just accept the idea that Brits like to do butt repair? :madsmile:

Here's what prompted by inquiry. I was looking at a beautiful, pristine, unissued, 1955 UF series No.4 Mk2 (matching #s) on GunBroker LEE Enfield No4 MK2 UNISSUED .303 British UF 55 NR : Bolt Action Rifles at GunBroker.com
. This gun had never had a moment of disreputable abuse. Here are two pics:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...psl1rbi8-1.jpg
Notice on this next one, the butt has been repaired (maybe by Captain Laidler's instructor, given the date it was probably done).
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...with20Pa-1.jpg
Experts, what am I missing here? Should I believe that the boys at Fazakerley had a "butt fetish" and repaired gun butts before they needed repair? Or was this a "preemptive strike" knowing it was going to happen anyway? Or was this point forward of the butt plate so vulnerable that it chipped during fabrication? Or didn't they have enough butts around to use with apprentice Armourers for butt repair training? Why was the wood lip repaired and left exposed to chip again? Why wasn't a mod made to either the stock curvature (to fit the butt plate), or the butt plate size to fit the stock? To my eyes, the stock/butt plate interface was a design flaw that carried through all the way to the end of the line (UF series Mk2s).

Please enlighten me -- what's left of my aging logical senses are stretched to the limit this morning ;-)

Lee Enfield, your thread 2, re the odd markings. I have another Mk2 butt with the FT logo for Fredk. Tibbenham in Ipswich, England and that has the smaller unknown mark on it, as shown in your thread. This would indicate that this mark is not Canadian or a Canadian disposal mark. Unless, hghly unlikely, the butt went to Canada and was disposed of on a Mk2 gun from there. Am, pretty positive about the interlocked CWD markj though.

Fazakerley were geared up to heel and toe patch rifle butts being FTR'd so it makes sense to send a new butt through the process if it needed it - like the example shown. Waste not, want not. As for the second little split, I'm bound to ask how do you know that it wasn't done later? The butt plate must be fitted accurately to the butt where they meet at the end. The tang of the butt plate should be CLEAR of the butt by the width of a hacksaw blade - ish. This ensures that the tang won't split the butt - like yours - during firing and drill.

I've seen quite a few newish rifles with stock patches. I still have a 1945 Long Branch with the buttstock patched at the left front where it contacts the socket and was obviously done during new production. "Waste not, want not" as mentioned above.