No1Mk3 SMLE full restoration - from scratch

Gday,
I recently found a No1MK3 SMLE which im currently getting registered and ill be restoring. I am not doing this for profit and well aware that this will take some time and in some eyes may not be worth the hassle. But ill be treating this as a hobby and hopefully bring this old work horse back to life.

Few things to note, i have never dealt with guns before until the last couple of weeks due to Australian gun laws, so treat me like newbie if you like :)
There are some pictures below but are not in great detail, ill post some more when i get the rifle back in my hands. Despite the pictures, the rust looks like surface rust when i wiped it clean, so there shouldn't be pitting when i strip the metal back with chemical.
The bolt is missing.
My biggest issue at the moment is that since i have not worked on rifles or any fire arm before is assessing what can and cant be used as well as which parts can be re sourced for example there looks to be pin missing just behind the trigger as you can see. The bore of the rifle pending on rust damage if any.
The fire arm store that currently holds the rifle while i get it registered seems to be very knowledgeable so I will use a lot of his advice but i figured reaching out to a community wont hurt.

ImageShack - Enfield

From what ive seen on markings, it appears to have been made in Lithgow 1926 then remade in the 1950s followed by a lot of gun smith scribing near the receiver.

Any thoughts on how i should tackle this project or words of wisdom are more than welcome.

- Cheers, Vigilant.

Fitting a bolt is a task not for the inexperienced...there's threads here about it. The woodwork, I'd use a liquid strip and see what's happening and a glass bead blast of the metal to remove all that. How's the barrel? I expect the inside looks like the outside...

Can't access the link.

I think you have a project that will probably cost you plenty and you may really want to ask yourself is it worth going down the trail;
As from what I can see in the pics it looks like someone just left it outside in the weather drying out the timber like the Sahara (Salvageable) but oh boy is there some rust there.
I doubt looking at the pics the bore will ever be recoverable but others on the site will give you more advice. The front band is on upside down, looks like where the front trigger guard screw goes through is chipped,, cannot say if the mag will come out or the floor plate move would say the back sight is non functional but I will say early Lithgows do have value this one may be one of those but be prepared to shell out some $'s. Depending how you go there are plenty of non genuine barrels out there for a reasonable price, but you need to have an experienced gunsmith fit up the bolt and barrel have fun they do grow on you these Lee Enfields of all types Good luck and keep the forum updated with what goes on

Thanks for the advice so far, ill post detailed pics with my proper camera to show more detail when i get the rifle back in a few weeks, as for the rust, it looks a lot worse in these current photos than it actually is, having said that the bore would no doubt have some degree of rust, but how much is too much?
Being surface rust would you still use a high pressure remover or would an acid bath do just as well?
The magazine would not budge, it seemed to be rusted in or the wood has changed characteristics, the spring and the plate inside the magazine still worked when i checked.
It was mentioned to use a chemical stripper for the wood instead of straight sanding is this due to the tannin's being so deep as to preserve the natural grain in the wood?

Try the below pics, they should work if you couldn't see them before.

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/53...673/Bj8kdW.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/12...538/OmQhJZ.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/12...673/32iAtv.jpg
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https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/12...540/fgOuaZ.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/12...537/XQGMdK.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/12...901/siSSP9.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/12...537/lh5c5g.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/12...909/a8CjjX.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/12...673/C7j1dL.jpg

For the rust removal would recommend electrolysis then bead blast and finish of your choice, there are a few bits I,ve done in the restorers corner using the process, one was a scope can the other a 1903 Bayonet.

The electrolysis is is a slow process but for something like you have, it will remove all rust etc and give an idea what or if its worth continuing...... cost next to nothing need a battery charger, plastic container, some soap powder and a piece of scrap steel.

The liquid strip is the most gentle on the wood. The glass bead would be gentle but thorough on the rust. You might need to do some oil soaking of small parts like screws first. Just a dap will do. Wish I had that here, I could get 'er apart. Then it could be seen. The bayonet boss' bottom screw is holding the piling swivel in place so there's only the transverse screw remaining. You have a nasty lift in the upper handguard too...at the rear. I've also found for removing hard screws...work the screw driver into the slot and clean the rust out. Then with a properly fitted screw driver, rap the screw driver smartly like a punch and it breaks it free. You can usually turn them right out. If not, more oil soaking.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

rap the screw driver smartly like a punch and it breaks it free

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Poor mans impact drive Jim ?

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

Poor mans impact drive

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Very much so. I just tried it once and it worked well. Better than trying a screwdriver bit in the drill press when you're alone. That's OK if you have another set of hands.

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

The electrolysis is is a slow process but for something like you have, it will remove all rust etc and give an idea what or if its worth continuing...... cost next to nothing need a battery charger, plastic container, some soap powder and a piece of scrap steel.

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Having used just about every technique imaginable to remove rust (from guns, boats, & cars), in your case I'd use the electrolysis process -- it is about the only way you can eat away at parts that have become fused with rust. But you've got to remove the furniture first -- and this isn't going to be easy unless you are lucky.

Getting the wood off the gun is going to be a bear. Some of the screws are going to be very hard to remove -- including steel screws that contact wood (like butt plate and and those in sling swivel). You might consider just taking off the forend and handguard wood, because getting the butt off is going to be a big problem with all the rust. Then, make an electrolysis tank out of a piece of PVC Pipe, standing vertically. Put the gun barrel end down into the pipe tank, with liquid covering up to the butt receiver ring. Then let electro-chemistry do the hard work, eating the rust out of the cracks and crevices. After a day or two (or maybe more), you should be able to disassemble most of the metal parts with some rust-buster, a little heat to expand the metal, and some tender but tough work with impact screw drivers. I use a fine tip on my Dremel tool to clean out screw slots. You will probably bugger a few screws, which can be peened or just replaced. Parts are quite available, if you take the time to look.

Good luck. I would not advise you to use this gun as a shooter -- it's just a treasure. Thanks for caring to put in the time and effort.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Better than trying a screwdriver bit in the drill press when you're alone.

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Betchya that was fun Jim while it whirled around or created havoc ! :lol::lol::lol::lol::D

Well, not quite like that...

It looks like a great project, entirely restorable. You might have a decent bore there. Unless it was fired with corrosive primed ammunition and left to rot, you have a good chance of actually finding lands and grooves. Its funny how often I've gotten rusty old rifles like your SMLE (and worse!) but with a nice bore under the crud. That rust will come right off with 0000 steel wool and oil or solvent. I have always had success with Hoppe's no.9 solvent. The advice about the screws and using a liquid wood stripper is right on. NO sandpaper on that stock, please! Best of luck!

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Originally Posted by M2phil

Its funny how often I've gotten rusty old rifles like your SMLE (and worse!) but with a nice bore under the crud.

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True that, I bought a 760 Remington from my past Father-in-law and looked down the bore to see a black hole. The rest of the gun wasn't stellar and was covered in dried out motor oil. I pulled a new brush through a couple times and an oiled cloth a couple times...then looked to find a mint bore. Mind, it wasn't covered in dry red rust... But we ARE waiting for you to get a bore brush down there and tell us.

I will definitely keep you guys posted with pics, and im sure i will need all the help i can get being the first time ive handled fire arms before :p I would love to bring it back to working condition. Ill let you guys know about the bore and such when i get the rifle back, its currently being held at a local gun store until my fire arms license goes through in the next couple of weeks.
I think it was found in a lagoon near my house several decades ago then it used to sit above our slow combustion stove, so the extreme heat all the time during the winter would have kept the moisture out of it, it was only recently now that im older that i found it again :)

I noted the wings on the hand guard straddling the rear sights is bowed quite a bit, would it be worth to buy a new used guard or try and level it out, im aware that that are extremely fragile, would be a shame since it looks like all the wood is matching.

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Originally Posted by Vigilant

in a lagoon

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Unreal...

Can I be a bit more brutal - and realistic than most of the forumers so far, in a most respectful way.............? Looking at what you've been lumbered with I'd say that the very FIRST thing you need to do before youy even think about starting the de-rusting treatment is this. Scrub the bore like it's going out of fashion. If it's crap at the last 6" of muzzle then don't bother flogging this dead horse.

If the bore is OK, then listen to this. ALL RUST IS SURFACE RUST. There ain't no other sort! Take the bull by the horns and accept that this isn't an all singing and dancing £20,000 Purdy work of art but a 1926 ex Military battle rifle. It will NEVER be anything else!. Now strip it using the best technique you have and have the whole lot totally fine grain bead blasted. It'll leave a slightly matt but pitted surface but no rust. Then take it to a local agricultural implement repairer/manufacturer and get him to phosphate it in the phosphate tank. That will a) get rid of the rust and b) chemically seal the steel surface. Then paint it with a hard bake paint. That is just what the military have been doing since 1944 and still doing it to this day. You could leave it a dull grey phosphate finish but if you do, just keep it oiled.

Just thought id give you guys an update, the rifle is registered and all that jazz so its back in my possession. Ive taken some better pics here SMLE - Album on Imgur

Currently in the process of breaking it down, just need to keep oiling the screws over the next few days as some of them don't want to budge while others will come out quite easily.

Reckon it would have been fun to carry slung on the shoulder with the front band like that :rofl:

Well, this ought to be good. I'd suggest doing what Peter said, and scrub the bore as much as possible. Still, it would be good to see this de-rusted and all. You still need a bolt and the mag may not survive the de-rusting... Some screws may be hard to deal with too.

Yeah the place that was holding it for me is also a gunsmith (seems very experienced) and said he can get me the bolt when I get to that stage, he reckons he has seen some in worse condition as well. Some screws come out with elbow grease while others ill have a crack at every day and keep oiling till they budge. I will be borrowing an impact screw driver i think for some of them.

The magazine i can't get out, I have opened the magazine release and oiled the space around the magazine with lots of elbow grease but i cant get it to budge, i think its due to it being held in place still as you can see in the bottom left where the catch is rusted onto the magazine.
http://i.imgur.com/fdLqrhs.jpg

Should I try and sheer it free between the magazine and trigger?

If you can get the whole trigger guard out then it would be easier to just soak the whole affair in Kroil or some such. That should come out provided the screws will play...

Depending where it came from the magazine could of been welded or pinned to stop from being removed, seen quite a few like that out in Germany & Italy

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Originally Posted by Simon P

the magazine could of been welded or pinned to stop from being removed

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I sort of doubt it, considering the history of this one.

It was all good, i managed to "wrestle" with the trigger and magazine housing and pulled the whole lot free in one piece as suggested. It must have loosened the magazine as it slid out as if nothing was wrong when i tried after.

Just have six screws and the pin holding the sights in place, the six screws ill need to use an impact driver i think as ill end up stripping them otherwise.

I know the pin holding in the sights only comes out one way, does anyone know which way I should force it out from? there doesn't appear to be a visual indication to it.

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Originally Posted by Vigilant

. It must have loosened the magazine as it slid out

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It was just bound up because of the rust.

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Originally Posted by Vigilant

I know the pin holding in the sights only comes out one way

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The front sight pin will come out either way...no difference...just use a slightly bigger drift to start and then the tiny one to clear.

Soaking rusted metal in Diesel can work wonders but can damage any remaining finish left on metalwork so beware.

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

any remaining finish left

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I think we're past that in this case. Yes, diesel does work well for that sort of thing.

That's a lot more than surface rust. Some may qualify as that but there's some deep pitting in the receiver/trigger/socket area. Soaking in white vinegar will also remove the rust, and remaining finish (I do see some)

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

remaining finish

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I don't think there's any there. There's hard red rust and finer dry red rust...but I don't believe there's any blue left. I'd love to have it in hand to see for sure though. Still think it just need a complete glass bead to clean it.

When penetrating oil doesn't do the trick, I've resorted to the Electrolysis Method with great success.
Electrolysis is the least destructive and most thorough method available to remove rust, removing no base metal. It does not require grinders, wire wheels, or acids.
Its simple, using a 2 amp battery charger with an ammeter (which tells you you've got a good connection), a plastic bucket, a piece of steel or iron, and baking soda or washing soda (in the laundry section of the grocery store). Use about a box to each gallon of water (the concentration is not critical).

Put the rusted part in a solution of baking soda. Connect the red (positive) lead of the charger to a piece of steel or iron (with a couple of square inches of surface area), and the black (negative) lead to the rusted part.

The time it takes to turn the rust into a black oxide will vary depending upon the depth of the rust and the concentration of the baking soda. Once the rust turns black (and the solution is rusty), use a Scotch pad or soft wire brush to remove the remaining oxide. The metal that is not rusty will remain untouched. Then treat with paint, parkerize, or bluing.

So, ive stripped it down and in the process of finishing the rust stripping, only issue is, with in 10mins the bare metal starts to rust again. At the moment ive covered the metal parts in some oil i have in the workshop until i get a more substantial long term seal on it.

Do any of you guys have a preference when it comes to sealing this metal? I have read everything from just oiling it every now and then to powder coating. I don't want to oil as that will attract dust and dirt, while others will chip and such.
Is there a way to seal the metal to how it was originally?

While most metal won't rust in 10 minutes, perhaps there is still some salt or other chemical left on the metal.

I've used three different solutions, other than oil:
-1) Rust Converter: This is not rust not remover. It works by chemically reacting with the oxidized iron and producing a black paint-like surface. Rust converters are found in automotive stores -- great for old cars.
-2) Rust Prevention Paint: Such as Rustoleum that has a high oil-base that bonds any remaining rust into the paint.
-3) Bluing: This is a different chemical process that creates a stable version of ferric oxide that actually becomes a protective coat.

Of course, you can also Parkerize the finish, but this may be too complex for a gun in this condition.

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Originally Posted by Vigilant

powder coating

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I don't think you want to powder coat this. You won't be able to re assemble it as the tolerances will be out of whack. If you bead blast it for bluing it won't rust so quick, certainly not in 10 minutes. I'd just oil after bead blast and then you boil it to remover oil before bluing anyways. Powder coat isn't the way to go here. Not for guns.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I don't think there's any there. There's hard red rust and finer dry red rust...but I don't believe there's any blue left. I'd love to have it in hand to see for sure though. Still think it just need a complete glass bead to clean it.

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Yeah, you're right. I was looking at the picture of the socket and seeing black but enlarged it and see that it's just black rust.

Just thought I would give you guys an update,

Whole rifle is now rust free.
Putting the final couple of coats of linseed oil with gum turps and Alkanet root mixed in.

Last stage is to seal the metal (will probably be using Cerakote), only issue is I cant free the barrel from the receiver. I would assume this is a must when getting it properly sealed?

The other is, there is a screw holding in the sear that I cant get un-done. Everything around it is rust free and there doesn't appear to be any weakness or degradation, it just wont budge, this particular screw is quite soft so is prone to stripping, ill take it to my local gun smith and see what he says - can get it out, but I would also assume this must come apart if sealing? I'll provide pics once i get my camera today / tomorrow.

If you are trying to remove the barrel from the receiver I suggest you ensure you have the right tools and have a spare bolt in the race to stop the action twisting as from what the persons here have said the Lee action is notoriously weak when longitudinal force is applied without the correct tools any of the armourer's here will advise you to be careful how you do it. If I am incorrect in this advice I am sure I will be smacked for it just trying to save you some grief.

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Originally Posted by Vigilant

there is a screw holding in the sear that I cant get un-done. Everything around it is rust free .... it just wont budge, this particular screw

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One old trick I learned from restoring old cars is to heat the metal surrounding the screw (not the screw itself) with a fine-tipped torch (don't heat to red hot!). The idea is to capitalize on the expansion of the metal around the screw which breaks the seal between screw and surrounding metal. Work the screw both "in" a little and "out" a little to see if it breaks loose.

To add to Seaspriter's comment, a trick a gifted machinist taught me was to heat the surrounding metal as suggested, but then drip candle wax on it. It should be hot enough for the wax to slightly boil. The wax will penetrate better than any oil and super lubricate. We did this once with a stuck broken ground engaging ripper tip keeper pin on a dozer. A 100 ton press wouldn't push it. Heated it, did the wax trick, walked away for an hour and smacked it out with a 4lb hammer and punch. I've even used this trick for dissimilar metals with seized fasteners like steel bolts stuck in aluminum and it works beautifully.

Hey guys its me again,

Bit of an update, she is pretty much complete, barrel just needs a good clean and a bolt and she should b good to go :) That screw I was last talking about apparently doesn't come out, my gunsmith said when these rifles were made they were set in place (I forgot the exact word of it).

Below is a pic of the rifle (safety is now fitted)

Just need to know where I can source a good bolt for the No1Mk3 in Australia?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../atZMi5j-1.jpg

Tbonesmith may have some he advertises on used guns so give him a whirl, Owen Guns as well may have one laying around the ones on fleabay are way to dear and may be ratsh*t so best to use a dealer who has the knowledge.

What happened to the safety catch!

if i hadn't seen it i would be struggling to believe it. nice work.

where abouts in australia are you? if you are out in the country, try to find a gunsmith that deals with the local police's hand in's and confiscations. one of the local gunsmiths that i talk to (pester) a fair bit, ends up with the ex police old firearms to dispose of, as he feels suitable, once all the proper paperwork etc has been finalized. from what he has said he has a stash of lee enfield bits left over from destroying the ones that aren't worth keeping/selling. i have heard that another in a different town has the remains of several dozen smle's from the same source. (yes i will be chasing that lead up).

that is where i would start my hunt.

Thanks :)

If he happens to have a good condition bolt ill be happy to pay for postage as well or ill chase up what cinders has said. I also live in Sydney.

The safety is currently fitted don't worry, i just had to spend 15mins getting it in the right position :p

So after ringing up five different places I managed to find someone who sells them, thanks to those who PMed me!

Looks like a good condition bolt is $150 from this supplier, does this sound like a reasonable price?

Thanks for the help gents, last piece is fitting into place :)

Supply - Demand but as we all know stuff that is good is drying up and those that have it can be rather assertive of the prices they wish brand new never fitted complete with brand new bolt head and accouterments its getting up there I have seen them as low as $50/AU but used of course, if you think its a good deal from a reputable dealer then go ahead.

Our laws and those of other places have certainly slowed bits and bobs from o/seas to a dead stop.........

What a great project, really well done, another of the breed back from the grave!

Please do keep us posted, get a gunsmith to headspace the new bolt and carefully check the rifle is serviceable before shooting, its a skilled job and the bolt head will without dought require spacing adjustment, or replacing if its beyond tolerance.

Hey guys, bit of an update, life has been busy so I haven't replied :)

Bolt is head spaced and had a service check done by the gun smith so that was all good.

I had taken it to the range last week, the magazine and action worked perfectly, as instructed by the range officer we loaded a single round to see how it will fire. The bolt took the round and it chambered like a glove, fired the first round successfully then this is where I fell short from the finish line! devastated but im not giving up.

When I tried to retract the bolt the casing wouldn't budge, it took three of us 15mins to dislodge the casing and retract the bolt, we ended up putting a cleaning rod down the barrel and ramming it out. It turns out the barrel is pitted.

Fresh rounds glide in and out easily, however once fired, I can only assume as the casing expands, its catching on the pitting. After analising the expended casing, although the whole case has signs of pitting its only the top 3 - 5mm where the primer is where the round gets stuck quite nicely. I was told by my gun store I could use some gun oil and a brush for one or two hours to losen that part of the barrel.

My question is, I use g96 spray oil, will this be enough and what sort of brush or setup should I use? doesn't the brush need to be tougher steel than the barrel so it can work?

Also im aware there are quite small tolerances in the barrel, so how much is too much to take off?

Ill post a pic a bit later :)

Cleaning out the pits won't remove the pits. They're in there and will continue to catch and hold your brass. You can use a good bore brush to remove rust...but it still takes time. We have threads here talking about this condition.

Thanks mate, just took a look and found some people saying how they did it.

Below are a couple of pictures, even though the pitting is on one side should i still wear away the whole barrel to a void an oval shape or just work at where the pitting is?


http://i.imgur.com/Agb5MAa.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/EJ63ff3.jpg

I had that problem with a MK III according to my armorer mate (Dec) an insect had got down there karked it the acids ate a nice divet in the chamber hence it fire formed into the divet bingo stuck round. It was too deep to remove hence new barrel fitted then a shmuck broke into our home ransacked the place and stole it and my P H 22/250, in the days when you did not need a safe. (They did not get the bolts they were separately hidden)
So you can try and get them out but be wary of making the chamber so oversized you end up with head separations I suggest you have a talk to TBonesmith if he has a good 2nd hand barrel or a fit a new Armalon. From my angle looking at those pit marks I would go to another barrel cut your losses.
It gets to the stage where you go in to deep and will never re-coup your inputed $'s if your keeping it for good then fit a newby barrel and get into it as I am sure you have a soft spot for it. See Att for what I did to a couple of barrels that were shot out. The one I cut with a wafer disc is pretty rough but I like it.
Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Vigilant

even though the pitting is on one side

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Peter Laidler and a couple others here are armorers and will probably see that and give you a final say, but in my mind...I'm with Cinders and would rip that barrel. It's hooped.

Now to flatly answer your pointed question, you can possibly polish that out with machine paper on a Mandrell, with oil and a drill...one side polishing won't be possible. You'll simply increase the chamber to an exaggerated dimension and stretch your brass to an un-reusable dimension. If you're going to buy factory ammo, you'll get away with it. If you reload then you can't.

Thanks for the advice gents :) by the way, thats a nice cut out of the barrel!

Sarco just listed "like new" Original #1 MK3 barrels. I haven't seen them available for donkeys years.

#1 Mk3 barrel

They also have a buy 3 price of $299.95 but you have to call them to get it. Item LE3103.

I did a bit more research and worked out that im better off buying a new barrel at about 400 - 500 dollars in Austraia (before a gunsmith touches it!), as with our import and customs taxs plus the weight it will probably cost just as much, such a shame as I would love one of those barrels!

Looks like one final expensive hurdle is left :s

$900 later and a free magazine by my gunsmith and its all done! thanks to everyone for your help :)

Well, at last it's done. Looks pretty good now. How does it shoot?

It appears that he made a nice sympathetic restoration job of it from the picture.

I had to look back to see the black wood, the fully crusted metal, still pitted but nothing can be done there. Looks worlds better.

Great job and perseverance as I said cost you a bit but you now have something that you had ties to, re discovered it then brought it back to its place and that my friends is awesome.