I have a semi auto L4 rewelded by Historic Arms.
It currently has a Mk1 buttstock. I have bought a Mk4 buttstock and a Mk2 combination tool to remove the current one.
Can I use the same mounting hardware or do I have to find the Mk2 hardware?
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I have a semi auto L4 rewelded by Historic Arms.
It currently has a Mk1 buttstock. I have bought a Mk4 buttstock and a Mk2 combination tool to remove the current one.
Can I use the same mounting hardware or do I have to find the Mk2 hardware?
?......... What do you call 'mounting hardware' You can simply 'mount' the new L4 butt onto the Mk1 type return spring tube quite easily although you might have to fit the woodwork a tad to get a close fit onto the butt socket.
But you will also need a new:
NUT, return spring tube, BE 4123 or 9688 to hold the butt onto the gun.
If the L4 type butt came to you as an assembly, then all is well. But if not, you;ll also need a new:
WASHER, return spring tube BE 4148
PLATE, butt BE9667
SPRING, detent BE4145
BRACKET, butt assembly plus 4x screws.
I dare say that if you do need any of these parts, just say so and other forumers might be able to help out.
Just as a matter of interest, the L4 gun butt plates were modified to incorporate a loop at the top of the butt plate to enable better use of the sling AND use of the later/better L7 GPMG sling
Thanks Peter,
The new buttstock came as an assembly, but I only have the Mk1 return spring tube and nut etc that is currently holding on the existing buttstock.
The Mk4/L4 type butt will fit over the Mk1 ret spg tube but you might need to clear a very small amount of wood inside that might foul the Mk1 ret spg tube. But just a very small bit...... Look inside the Mk4 butt to make sure because the washer usually comes as part of the assembly and is pressed inside. So it MIGHT be there but you ain't noticed it*. Then you only need a new nut. Either type will fit/interchangeable.
Just a tip.......... Assemble the butt to the butt slide WITHOUT the butt plate and detent spring and when it's tight and the cocking handle operates freely (might need a bit of clearance in the wood too) only THEN assemble the detent spring and butt plate.
While you're there, notice that the ret spg tube hole down the butt and the corresponding hole in the butt plate are offset to the left by a few mm's. This is another bit of the remarkable design of the magnificent Bren. It's to allow the cocking handle slide to embed itself into the butt.
* you can always tell for certain with a Bren and a No1/4/5 by hitting the ridge area with a long steel screwdriver. If it sounds soft and 'thuddy' then the washer is missing. A good solid metallic sound and it's there!
Thanks for the additional information Peter. I took the butt plate and spring off and, indeed, the washer is fixed in place inside the hole. I just need to source a nut now. Non of the usual online parts retailers in the USA have any in stock at the moment. Is there any way of making the Mark1 nut fit, if I cannot source either of the newer versions?
Give it a few days and I'm sure one of the UK Bren fiends will be able to help. On the other hand, these things regularly appear on that auction site. A Mk1 nut thinggy will screw on but it'll need to be machined and then you'll need the cup bit and then it'll protrude out of.............. Just get the real McCoy........
I think I have found a nut from Sarco. They described it as a Bren Mark2 Buttstock Retainer! but when I asked them if that was actually the Return Spring Tube Nut, and described what it was for, they confirmed that it was, indeed, said nut.
I am trying to convert to the L4 configuration that Capt. Laidler suggested when I posted a picture of my Bren, No4, No5 and Enfield Mk2 revolver a few weeks ago. I have already replaced the bipod for a Mk1, and need to get a newer carrying handle after I fit the new buttstock, and then I will call it a day. The flash hider on my barrel is not the L1A1 style though and seems to be a custom made muzzle break. Maybe, one day, I can get a correct spare barrel too. As these guns are rewelded from numerous kits and then are converted to semi-auto, I'm not too bothered about it being overly authentic though.
The barrel in the picture you have in your profile folder is a South African .308... it employs the standard muzzle brake design commonly found on various FAL rifles of the period. The smith who set up your gun has managed to get it to feed from the UK .308 magazines... but is using the SA barrel (it does not require a 7.62 bolt etc. that a complete UK military conversion would require).
Thanks for the new information, all very interesting. As these guns are welded up from kits, I expect that many hybrid parts are used as a matter of course. The receiver is marked as an Inglis MkII from 1943 then restamped (badly) as an L4A4 with 1959!!
I have attached more photos of the receiver, barrel and bolt/carrier.
Is that a complete new section of body? I'm looking at the distinct vertical ridge down from the mag catch axis pin. The original INGLIS/date would be on a surface level with the BREN Mk2 marking
Quite possibly. These receivers come into the USA butchered into 4 pieces with diagonal cuts through all the vital parts. The rebuild guys weld up the gaps and might have to use multiple kits or make new areas too. I admire the time and skill involved. I bought this gun via auction, so don't know the history of the rebuild.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
The gun being discussed is a typical Historic Arms build... He uses gusset plates and weld to reinforce the mag well walls when reassembling the cut receiver... which makes for a readily identifiable new profile for outer surface of the receiver walls... the split in the slide in front of the trigger guard is also a tell for a HA build. And as Vincent has pointed out in previous posts and is again pictured here... the left side locating key is mostly milled away on the gas piston/bolt carrier. The faux riveted on mag lip support is cosmetic and is not an actual modification part... and like the re-lettering has been applied to give a look a like effect for this build. FYI... I have two made this way... but I had the SA flash hider replaced with one from a MAG58 and it does a good bit to make the whole effect much more like an original conversion's barrel - but I did not pay to have the .303 barrel profile turned down to the .308 outer dimensions.
Really this would have been better being marked as an L4A3 rather than an L4A4!
How difficult was it to replace the flash hider with the MAG 58 one?Quote:
Originally Posted by WallyG.
Thread Pitch - Anyone know????Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobsean
From that earmarked thread and my experience I;d say it was 60 degree metric over a diameter. Get a bit of wood and screw it into the hole to establish the pitch and then turn said pitch and angle onto a bit of slave alloy until you get it right. Then start cutting for real. Done it a zillion times..........
Well, I fitted the new buttstock and mk1 bipod. Everything seems to work okay when dry firing. I'll probably not mess with the flash hider, as I don't have any metal working tools.
I just need to get a mk2 carry handle and plate, but I am okay with the mk1 handle for now.
I can take some photos and post them if anyone is interested
This is what my Historic Arms "L4" Bren looks like now I have changed the bipod and buttstock. Thanks to you all for the information and advice so far!
Attachment 64678Attachment 64679
It looks very nice. :thup: :thup:
Thanks Vincent.
To go a bit further down the L4 Route on this project. You also need to change the carrying handle for a MK.II Version.
And also fit a MK.I Folding Cocking Handle as well.
Just an observation.
There was always a bit of anomaly regarding the L4 folding cocking handle. In the Navy BR (the Navy EMER) that included the L4A5 parts list - which specified one barrel incidentally - it listed both Mk1 folding and Mk2 solid cocking handles with the annotation A/R for AS REQUIRED. That indicates to me that there were Navy L4A3's and 5's with both types of cocking handle. Quite why I never understood but I can only assume that the Navy got some L4A3/5 guns that were a redirected foreign order.
I tried to get to the bottom of this while on the Navy minimi/DillonGatling trial but as the L4's were already obsolete, I didn't get beyond the BR!
On that basis alone I'd say that for an L4A3 or 5, then the cocking handle could be A/R - or either!
What is the need to change the carry handle? Is it fit, function or just for the “correct” look?
I think that it is aesthetic AND correctness Vince because the handle specified for the L4 guns is the parallel type. To be honest, the waisted Mk1 type were a PITA as they protruded too far ou of the side of the gun and were prone to damage. Damage that we had to repair! The easiest was to just machine down the damaged front flared bell-end, put on a Mk2 smaller dia end ferrule and be done with it. If scoobydoo wants to send me his address I'll send him some!
Thanks Peter, that would be great! I can buy the wood but the discs don't seem to be available
It is 'Correct' for any L4 Series LMG. And also as Peter has stated. An Improvement for use in the Field/ Exercises. Reducing the risk of damage which would be greater. On a MK.I Handle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent
L4A4 Folding Handle. L4A3 either pattern cocking handle.
Changing the cocking handle from a Mk2 to a Mk1 folding type was a Base workshop (and FTR) modification. Done at Base Workshops only during a WORP. That's a War Office Repair Programme!
Peter......if you have any extras.....I'd love to get ahold of one of the smaller metal discs, too?
-TomH
TomH,
Peter is sending me a few, so I can pass one along when they arrive.
Great! Thanks.......give me a PM whenever and we'll connect......Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobsean
Thanks to you BOTH!!
-TomH
I would be interested in buying your MK1 buttstock if you want to get rid of it.
Okay , here are some photos of what I haveAttachment 64823Attachment 64824Attachment 64825Attachment 64826
The last 4 photos show a thin crack in the wood along the top of the slide cover. I'm sure it could be easily glued down
Attachment 64828Attachment 64829Attachment 64830Attachment 64827
PM me to discuss
That patch that's coming unstuck.......... It's a genuine Armourers patch and easily made good by being re-stuck or just chop out and start again. But make sure you replace all the tell-tale signs of REAL Armourers work. Such as the undercut dovetails and oak pegs!
Peter, all the patches are rock solid. The charger handle cover has lifted a little bit and split the thin bit of wood between the surface and the groove it slots into. More cosmetic then anything and we agreed a deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Maybe you could remind him to come back to the forum with his gun sereial number and of how he gets on with the changeover in the future
I received your generous packet of goodies today. Many thanks again!Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I have now completed everything that I wanted to on my Historic Arms Semi-Auto "L4" rebuild. I changed the buttstock, return spring, striker spring, bipod and carrying handle. I took her (are Brens female?) out to the range today and ran through 40 quick rounds. Everything ran very smoothly.
This is what it looks like now:Attachment 64850Attachment 64851Attachment 64852
Thanks to everyone again for your help, especially Peter for explaining things to me in simple terms and for sending me the carrying handle parts.
I'd look around for an L4 type flash eliminator now.