New to these rifles. Could someone indentify what I have?

Hi,

I just bought a rifle for my son at a gun show. I was told it was a Springfield. It says Rock Island Armory model 1903. The stock looks different from what I've seen on the internet of other 1903s.

I've never owned a 30-06 before and I don't care if this thing is collectable because I just want to teach my son to shoot, but I'm curious about what I have.

Any comments are welcome.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_4170-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_4172-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_4169-1.jpg

Thanks

How much did you give for it?

You have a sporterized 1903 low number Rock Island rifle. Looks like a 60's Fajen stock. Most will advise against firing these low number
receivers. looks like it might have the original barrel, any date under the RIA stamp by the front sight ? might have been polished off.

All the military features have been removed or changed so not much value to a collector

I think the RIA stamp has been polished off. I paid $300 for it and it came with a scope. The stock poorly finished, but I wanted something simple to for my son to shoot with.

What should I be worried about? I'm really new to these.

Thanks

Below serial number 286,506 for RIA they didn't do proper heat-treating. This lead to some receivers blowing up in WWI. The US military actually condemned all these rifles, and only condoned there use in the event of a emergency (like WWII). When these were sold off as surplus the CMP used to do a straight trade, low serial number receiver rifle for a high receiver rifle.

Personally I wouldn't shoot it because my life isn't worth risking but that is just me, you can do the research yourself and come to your own conclusions but there has to be a reason why a military would be willing to write off over 1 million firearms (and as far as I know it is the most extensive condemnation of a service weapon in history).

The scariest part about the heat treating issue is it isn't like it shows the signs of fatigue or anything before it potentially detonates, there is no warning signs to look for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eaglelord17

The scariest part about the heat treating issue is it isn't like it shows the signs of fatigue or anything before it potentially detonates, there is no warning signs to look for.

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That's right. They just go off to pieces...like glass.

Thanks for being straight with me. I was going to take this to the range, but reading this and other threads, it looks like someone saw a guy with no experience and took advantage. I paid cash, so no receipt, and I don't think my life, or especially my son's, is worth risking - even if the risk is small.

So what can I do now? Is there any value of this thing at all or do I now have a large paperweight?

It sucks, but it's a life lesson. My son was so excited, but I'm going to buy something new tomorrow.

Thanks

I would say there is some value in the bolt and the milled trigger guard. The bolt appears to be a modified A3 bolt and not a single heat treated one that you wouldn't want to sell or use. The milled trigger guards are always sought and depending on which make will determine value.

Kurt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by supercub

I would say there is some value in the bolt and the milled trigger guard. The bolt appears to be a modified A3 bolt and not a single heat treated one that you wouldn't want to sell or use. The milled trigger guards are always sought and depending on which make will determine value.

Kurt

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Thanks for letting me know. Is there any way I could replace the receiver with a different one and make this rifle safe?

Darian

You will likely spend near as much or more replacing the receiver than you would by purchasing another gun.

How old is your son? Under 12 years of age? A .30-'06 delivers quite a kick, and could be uncomfortable to anyone under 120 lbs, or so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by martin08

You will likely spend near as much or more replacing the receiver than you would by purchasing another gun.

How old is your son? Under 12 years of age? A .30-'06 delivers quite a kick, and could be uncomfortable to anyone under 120 lbs, or so.

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My son is going to be 14 soon. I'm not willing to take this risk with him, though I might try my luck with it at some point if I can't get my money back.

Thanks for taking the time, everyone, I now know what I have.

Darian

You might try to take it back to who you got it from and tell him that you found out that the rifle is unsafe/danagerous to shoot and he did not warn/tell you about that when you bought it, Ray

I do not believe that the CMP ever offered to replace LN/SHT receivers for free. When available, LN/SHT receiver equipped rifles were sold by the CMP, but with the admonishment that they were “Wall Hangers” and not to be fired.
Prior to WWII, if a rifle having a SHT/LN receiver were to be returned to the Springfield Armory to be rebarreled, the LN/SHT receiver would be replaced at no charge. After WWII the program changed. A stripped LN/SHT receiver could be traded for a HN receiver for ~$8.00. Prior approval was required and the serial number of the receiver to be turned in was required. When the supply of M1903 receivers was exhausted, the offer was changed -to a barreled 03A3 receiver. When these were exhausted the program expired.
Catastrophic failure of LN/SHT receivers have been documented by Hatcher and though various articles in the Dope Bag of the American Rifleman Magazine. I do not intend to enter the argument about firing the LN/SHT rifles. I would not allow my son to fire the rifle in the example nor would I fire it myself. It has been drilled and tapped for a scope. This would require annealing the receiver in some fashion. Since I do not know how this was done, I would be wary.
FWIW

Not the CMP, but the DCM did at some point in time, I believe after WWII to perhaps, the mid-1960s. The CMP didn't come into existence until 1996.

Well, a funny thing happened today. I was thinking I'm screwed, since this was a cash sale and this guy probably thought I was a sucker and dumped it off on me. I went back today and told him that my concern, and he remembered me and gave me the money right back saying that he'd never heard of this but didn't want to sell something that could be dangerous. It truly restored my faith in humanity.

I was able to buy a new Remington 270 for the same money and my son and I had a lot of fun shooting it today.

I admit that it's kind of my fault for not researching it first, but I learned a valuable lesson.

Thanks for the help, everyone. I truly appreciate. I had never heard of an exploding receiver before...

Well done. I'm sure once you told him he realized the danger and also possibly liability. Ray

The 270 will serve you well.

Good to see it all worked out. There are a lot of good people out there, you just don't know it till you deal with something like this.

Good information on the faulty 1903 receivers can be found here: Information On M1903 Receiver Failures

lots of wrong info on that site

Was the Remington a model 700 and a used rifle or a brand new one?

A brand new one - the 770. I know they're not as good, but we're just learning for now. In a couple of years if he's still as into it as he is now I'll get him a higher quality rifle.

My marksmanship was kind of embarrassing. I spent 6 years in the Army, but it was a long time ago, and the M16 doesn't kick like a bolt action. I shot better than my son, but I've still got some practice to do. LOL.

But it really was a nice father/son day, and it's hardly surprising that I got rusty in the last 15 years...

BTW, are these cheap ammo sites on the internet legit? Buying ammo by the box isn't cheap.

Glad it all worked out. Great that you are having quality time and passing the shooting sports on to the next generation.

Many bargains on ammo can be found on the net. If it comes from a trustworthy site, you can save quite a bit of money. Often, you may need to buy quite a quantity for large savings and remember to add in the shipping which can be expensive.

A 270 is a much better choice for a beginner than a 30-06, as the 270 doesn't beat the shooter up so bad.

IIRC Hatcher has an excellent analysis of the low serial number 1903's.

I very much like the M1903 Rifle but would prefer the A3 over an 03. But in either case I'd be inclined to get the Remington or Smith Corona.

Sounds like an honest dealer. I would be inclined to do more business him when the time comes. Lots of options available for 270 ammo. Glad it worked out ok.