I keep coming back to the M1 Carbine as my GO TO HD Weapon

Being of the "Peace through superior Firepower " mentality brought on by 20+ years as an LEO and 7 year as military, I have no shortage of martial type weapons to choose from for my home defense carbine. Besides my pet 6 digit Inland mix-master, I have two AR15s (a retro 603 build and a Mid-length 1/7 twist carbine), a PTR91 HK G3 clone, a featureless AK (Stock Saiga Sporter), and most recently a new 582 Series Mini-14 with a wood handguard.

I REALLY love the Mini-14, and actually prefer shooting it to shooting my AR15s or AK. The tapered, heavier barrel, and the ghost ring rear sight coupled with the M1 Carbine style post and wing front sight make it much more accurate than the old Minis. I really thought it would replace the Carbine as my HD (Home Defense) Carbine. But something happened. I don't know if it was tradition (my dad and Uncles fought with M1 Carbines in WW2), practicality (the Min weighs over two pounds more with a mag in it and a stock pouch with mags), or habit (the fact I carried an M1 carbine as my trunk weapon for much of my LEO career.)

With that said, my Inland is coming out of the safe, and going to be the ready weapon for me. I just need to stop buy and buy a box of Hornady Critical Defense ammo for it. I figure the top 20 in the O-Kay or SEY 30 rounder will be Critical Defense, and the bottom 10 will be 110 R-P FMJs for when the Goblins retreat behind barricades!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zpswiiu-1.jpg

So the Critical Defense ammo has been reliable for you? I bought a box to try last week. My main drama with the Carbine versus some other rifles are the sights. Just haven't found a good way to get hits in low light. ACOGs work regardless of lighting, and I have tritium sights for other rifles.

My main HD weapon [weapons] are ankle bitters, they bark at anything!! Back up is the good ole' pistol.

Bernie, You can't go wrong with Hornady Critical Defense ammo for HD. Just get you a couple of 20 Round Boxes and do like you said and if anyone on your property that has Bad Intentions that Round will do its job. I wouldn't use it for Target Shooting. I always keep a 15 Round Mag with it in my Carbine for Home Defense. I also use DRT ammo in my my Carbine and my Concealed Handgun.

I don't know if you have one or not, but If you don't you should pick up a Ruger Blackhawk in 30 Carbine. There fun to shoot at least I think they are. I have the Old 3 Screw Ruger Blackhawk before it was converted with the Transfer Bar. Every now and then I take it out of the Safe and go to Western night at the Range. It's a blast to see some old timers come ALL dressed up in Western Garment like the old Western Movies just having a blast.

"...So the Critical Defense ammo has been reliable for you?..." I'm sure this is not news for many here but I found out many years ago one solution to carbines not liking sof point or hollow point ammo. The WWII carbines I own have been reparked (some by me some by others) as a result the feed ramp is quite rough. I simply used a Dremel with a rubber wheel, followed by a polish with a buff wheel. The smooth and shiny feed ramps feed just about any ammo.

I've used many different types of ammo in one of my M1 Carbines. Never with a Parked or a gritty Feed Ramp, I always polish them after each use, but as much as I like to shoot I seem to always go back to S & B 110 gr. for Range Shooting. I just Clean my Carbine right when I get home.

I polished my feed ramp with a Kraytex point and a Dremel. My 6 digit Inland feeds everything I have tried: Remington 110 JSP and FMJ, WW2 Kings Mill, Vietnam era Lake City, Prvi Partizan 110 JSP and FMJ, Magtech 110 JSP and FNJ (HOT STUFF!), and my reloads with Bear Creek moly coated 115s and Berry's 110 plated. I only use USGI 15s and 30s. My 30s are: AI, SEY, AYP, J, and OKay.

No joy on the Critical defense at the local Gun Shops. I'll use my 110 Remington JSPs until I find some. I killed a 200 pound Blacktail deer with the 110 Remington JSP with a single 100 yard (actually 97 yard) broadside heart-lung shot.

I did not realize until just a few weeks ago that Hornaday made the Critical Defense for .30 carbine. I've been using it in my carry handguns so now I picked up a couple boxes on-line to keep handy for my NPM to go along with my Sig 239 for home defense.

This stuff has a wound channel in ballistic gel like my MK262 MOD1 77 grain 5.56!

Critical Defense® 30 Carbine from Hornady® - YouTube

I use my Inland to see what ammo does what and if I'm going to like how it performs, but ever since I got my NPM in Great Shooting Condition, I'm a bit finicky about what I feed it. I don't want any surplus ammo and if I have to spends more than usual for a really good ammo for my NPM I'll buy it.

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Originally Posted by imntxs564

I seem to always go back to S & B 110 gr. for Range Shooting. I just Clean my Carbine right when I get home.

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S&B may have been corrosive at some time in the past, but I've never seen any evidence of it. Wish it was still around $8.00 per box! - Bob

My predilection for HD include simply wearing my CCW around the house, namely a double-action .38 revolver. My situation is residing in a very, very small and near century-old house. I have a Remington 870 12-gauge with No.4 buck nearby because I am an eye-glass wearer and I might lose them in an emergency.

My wife loves the M1 carbine, and she finds it very easy to use. I recently installed a red-dot sight on a rail mounted in place of the upper handguard, and stocked the 15 round magazines with the Hornady Critical Defense cartridges. Like you say, it is a very formidable HD set up. Not too long ago, I decided to get another carbine of my own! ;):cheers:

Bob, I think it is Corrosive that's what I heard before. I never used them in my Nicer Carbines, just my shooter. As much as I go to the Range it's cheap and haven't started to make my own Rounds yet even though I bought a Reloader. I never put money in my Shooter Carbine. I do have some Nice Non Corrosive Ammo I use on my NPM and the Winchester and my '45 Inland. A few days ago on a Drizzly day I went to the Indoor Range and shot 25 15 round mags and this one guy followed me into the Rifle Range when he saw my Carbines and sat there with his ear muffs on and picked up all the spent Cartridges. He had asked me if it was okay and I said sure better for me that I don't have to sweep them up and clean the area.

---------- Post added at 12:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by daveccarlson

Not too long ago, I decided to get another carbine of my own! ;):cheers:

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Welcome to the Forum. What did you decide to Buy ?

Sellier and Bellot back in Warsaw Pact Czechoslovakia days made corrosively Berdan primed ammunition under the code "bxn." Some of their earlier commercial ammo may have used up the corrosive primers before switching to noncorrosive, Boxer primed brass.

The only corrosive M1 carbine ammunition I've ever heard of was made by France to supply the 100k give or take carbines that were used in Indochina/Vietnam and Algeria.

My spouse has a "Bavaria Forestry Police" and Landesgendarmeriekommando Steiermark-used October 1943 Inland/SG Saginaw with a mix of early and later carbine traits. early IBM "AOB" round bolt.

Mine is an Italian-used all-postwar F.A.T. 1977 marked carbine, that has a 1951 SA replacement barrel but an Inland/SG Saginaw receiver.;)

Everything I have seen and read says S&B is boxer primed and is not corrosive.

The Chinese also made VERY corrosive 30 carbine ammo. It showed up at the gunshows in the 90s. It is marked "LC 52" on the case heads and white pasteboard boxes. It is about the most corrosive ammo I have ever seen. I saw a carbine that was left overnight without cleaning after shooting some. WOW!!!! Talk about starting to rust.

Well, my buddies local gunshop was out of Critical Defense carbine ammo. He sold his last two boxes last week, and his supplier is out. The other two shops in town were out, also. Soo... I was shopping online and found PAlmetto State Armory, Selway Armory, and Midway USA all had it in stock at around $21/25. Midway had the cheapest shipping, so I bought two boxes with a total of $54, including shipping. At $1.10 a round, it is not cheap, but it was still a tad cheaper than locally, as it runs $27/25 plus tax.

I still have about 300 or 400 rounds of Remington 110 JSP, about 1,000 of Military and Remington 110 FMJ, and components to load about 1,000 rounds of reloads. When I consider I want the most effective round for my carbine, and the most reliable feeding soft point (it has a reputation for being the best feeding soft point, just like their .45 ACP and 9mm has a reputation for feeding even in finicky weapons), a buck a round for "Duty" ammo that will REALLY work, isn't bad. I won't be doing any plinking with it, however!. I'll have the 30 rounder in the weapon full, and two 15s full of Remington FMJ in the stock pouch.

That price is pretty close to Sportsman's Guide. Right now, they aren't allowing "free shipping" on ammo for some reason. Recently they had Remington 110g MC for $22.79 (Buyer's Club) with free shipping - thought that was a pretty good deal, so stocked up on some. - Bob

CTD has Hornady Critical Defense .30 Carbine FTX, 110 Grain, 2000 fps, 25 Round Boxes for 21.44. There in Stock now and I just ordered 4 boxes of it just a second ago. I like that Nickel Plated Brass Case. I haven't even put a dent of my loose 30 Carbine Ammo. My container is still full. I'm holding on to my last 20 Rd box of DRT. I think they stopped making it.

Hornady Critical Defense .30 Carbine FTX Bullet, 110 Grain, 2000 fps, 25 Round Box

Just bought a couple boxes of critical defense from Midway USA for 21.99. They also have prvi Partizan for 23.99 per box of 50. I have shot the Prvi lots of times in the past and never had a problem with it.

Back to home defense: Back in the 90's when I still lived in Fla. I had a Mexican family move into the old house next to me. There kids were nice and spoke English and they bought Avon from my wife. The husband was a drunk. One night he started shooting up the house. I had two minor children at the time so I put my M1 with 4- 30rd [FMJ] clips by the TV. The wife and Kids came to my house to get away from the husband. By that time I already called the Sheriff. when the Sheriff came and we told them what was going on, one looked at the M1 and asked what was that for. I told him if bullets come thru my walls, I'm sending some back. He said "think first and I don't see a thing". Anyhow the outcome was the family went to friends and the husband went to jail. In Fla. I was allowed to protect minor children anyway possible. GK

Shady, I agree with you that anyone could of been hurt and that would of been a Bad thing.

Frank

I like the Remington ammo, and have about 1,000 rounds total of FMJ and SP. I like that the R-P JSPs and FMJs print to the same POA. I also have a couple hundred rounds of WW 110 FMJ, which is about the same as R-P. I have also shot Magtech (Very hot) which I like a lot, Armscor, and Prvi PPU. All are good ammo.

I have used Aguila, but found I had to put the rear sight on 200 instead of 100/150 to do 100 yard shooting. Also it did not function 100%, and had occasional FTFs. I cured that by using a deteriorated recoil spring (9 7/8"). Then it did not want to feed the top 10 rounds of a 30 rounder.

I have tried Wolf and Tulammo. Both stink really badly, group size was awful, and recoil and report varied greatly. Wolf ammo chipped my extractor, so I sold the rest of it off (too bad, I had bought a case of 1,000 rounds really cheap!)

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

also have a couple hundred rounds of WW 110 FMJ.

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I have several hundred rounds of Winchester .30 M1 that was packed in 5-'44 and a hundred rounds of the same, but loose. They came with the carbine ( arsenal refurbished Inland mixmaster 1943) owned by my neighbor (since passed away) that he bought following the Korean War. Question: Has anyone ever fired this 70 year old ammo? Is it still good? Or should it become a "collectable?"

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Originally Posted by Seaspriter

I have several hundred rounds of Winchester .30 M1 that was packed in 5-'44 and a hundred rounds of the same, but loose. They came with the carbine ( arsenal refurbished Inland mixmaster 1943) owned by my neighbor (since passed away) that he bought following the Korean War. Question: Has anyone ever fired this 70 year old ammo? Is it still good? Or should it become a "collectable?"

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I had a couple hundred rounds of Kings Mill WW2 USGI ammo. It shot well, but had one or two dead primers out of every box of 50. I had some Vietnam era ammo awhile back, and it was HOT! Very good ammo, and no duds.

I'm sold on this 30 Carbine Round for HD. It's a Round that will put anything Down. Especially those Big Hogs.

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Originally Posted by Seaspriter

Question: Has anyone ever fired this 70 year old ammo? Is it still good? Or should it become a "collectable?"

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I've fired quite a bit of it and also reloaded it with no problems. Recently though, I bought several boxes of LC43 and found that about 1/3 of the cases split when fired. I don't know how it was stored, but some of the boxes appear a little "soft" as if they've been wet sometime in the past. I've managed to sell some of it as "collectable" and will shoot the rest - but won't waste time picking up the brass. I'm still not sure if shooting these can cause any damage to the chamber? - Bob

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Originally Posted by imntxs564

I'm sold on this 30 Carbine Round for HD. It's a Round that will put anything Down. Especially those Big Hogs.

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Who's round is that? Gold Dot?? Mean hollowpoint! I tried the Winchester 110 JHPs, but only got fair feeding from 15 round GI mags. Still had an occasional FTF, though. 30 rounders, even USGI, were a no-go with the WW 110 JHPs.

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

Who's round is that? Gold Dot?? Mean hollowpoint!

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Jim, That's the DRT Round very Accurate for a HP. I use these in my HD Mag. My Nephew went to the Ranch to get a nice little pig for my Aunt the other day. She makes Tamales for the Holidays and sells them. I gave him a 5 Round Mag of these and he came home with a nice one. He told me the Pig was staring at him and he started to turn right before the shot and the Round went inside the Shoulder and out under his Belly.

Pig was Dead Right There!

CMP every once in a while comes up with Carbine ammo. This is the ammo I use most of the time. So far I've bought four cans.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...22c097c6-1.jpg

Good stuff! Can't ever go wrong with that. Are those cans the same dimensions as a regular 50 cal. ammo can? - Bob

Jim; have you seen the new 'INLAND' 'Advisor' M1 Carbine pistol? That may be the ultimate M1C home defense gun.

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Originally Posted by USGI

Good stuff! Can't ever go wrong with that. Are those cans the same dimensions as a regular 50 cal. ammo can? - Bob

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yes they are.

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Originally Posted by USGI

Good stuff! Can't ever go wrong with that. Are those cans the same dimensions as a regular 50 cal. ammo can? - Bob

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Bob, they are the same size.

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Originally Posted by INLAND44

Jim; have you seen the new 'INLAND' 'Advisor' M1 Carbine pistol? That may be the ultimate M1C home defense gun.

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Reminds me of the enforcer.

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Originally Posted by INLAND44

That may be the ultimate M1C home defense gun.

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If it actually works. :rolleyes: - Bob

Wait until they fix there problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure most any of us could tweak it if needed. Most carbines need a little work every so often anyway.

So far, some of the bolts and slides have needed more than "tweaking."

What happened, soft steel?

Yep, soft bolts a smushing the lugs! See Jim M's extensive post

Lots of info in this thread:
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=53708

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Originally Posted by imntxs564

Bernie, You can't go wrong with Hornady Critical Defense ammo for HD. Just get you a couple of 20 Round Boxes and do like you said and if anyone on your property that has Bad Intentions that Round will do its job. I wouldn't use it for Target Shooting. I always keep a 15 Round Mag with it in my Carbine for Home Defense. I also use DRT ammo in my my Carbine and my Concealed Handgun.

I don't know if you have one or not, but If you don't you should pick up a Ruger Blackhawk in 30 Carbine. There fun to shoot at least I think they are. I have the Old 3 Screw Ruger Blackhawk before it was converted with the Transfer Bar. Every now and then I take it out of the Safe and go to Western night at the Range. It's a blast to see some old timers come ALL dressed up in Western Garment like the old Western Movies just having a blast.

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I like the Critical Defense in my carbine, but I have ejection problems in my Ruger Blackhawk. Most commercial ammo is no problem, but the CD requires a sharp tap on the ejector rod to knock it out. Surprised this happens with a nickeled case. Sometimes I get enough case setback to cause the cylinder to bind. Could this be a higher pressure round? I notice the advertised velocity is also a bit high. BTW some LC72 military surplus gives the same problem.

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Originally Posted by Mizzouboy

I like the Critical Defense in my carbine, but I have ejection problems in my Ruger Blackhawk. Most commercial ammo is no problem, but the CD requires a sharp tap on the ejector rod to knock it out. Surprised this happens with a nickeled case. Sometimes I get enough case setback to cause the cylinder to bind. Could this be a higher pressure round? I notice the advertised velocity is also a bit high. BTW some LC72 military surplus gives the same problem.

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Rugers have relatively rough chambers. I had the same problem in my 1970 Super Black hawk with hot handloads. I have seen chrono reports of Critical Defense showing about 100 FPS more than R-P's 1935 FPS.

I haven't tried Critical Defense in my 30 Carbine Blackhawk, but I know I've never had not one Problem with all the different types of ammo I have used in it.

Frank

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Originally Posted by Mizzouboy

I like the Critical Defense in my carbine, but I have ejection problems in my Ruger Blackhawk. Most commercial ammo is no problem, but the CD requires a sharp tap on the ejector rod to knock it out. Surprised this happens with a nickeled case. Sometimes I get enough case setback to cause the cylinder to bind. Could this be a higher pressure round? I notice the advertised velocity is also a bit high. BTW some LC72 military surplus gives the same problem.

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For what its worth lightly oiling my LC72 ammo before loading the cylinder of my Blackhawk helps with the ejection after firing.

Yippee! My Critical Defense ammo is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow. Can't wait to pull the old girl out of the safe and put her back to work! I know that all Critical Defense/Critical Duty ammo is designed to feed flawlessly, even in picky firearms. Their .380 feeds in anything, even PPKs and Kahr's, their 9mm fed in an Israeli browning P-35 HP I had that HATED hollow points, and even my Kahr CW45 .45 ACP, that is picky about hollow points. The design is such that, besides keeping the hollowpoint from plugging going through walls and clothing, the polymer nose plug also helps it feed smoothly into the chamber. With actual velocities I have seen running almost 100 FPS faster than R-P and S&B (I have seen chrono results of 2025+ FPS), It should have plenty of thump under 100 yards!

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

Yippee! My Critical Defense ammo is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow. Can't wait to pull the old girl out of the safe and put her back to work! I know that all Critical Defense/Critical Duty ammo is designed to feed flawlessly, even in picky firearms. Their .380 feeds in anything, even PPKs and Kahr's, their 9mm fed in an Israeli browning P-35 HP I had that HATED hollow points, and even my Kahr CW45 .45 ACP, that is picky about hollow points. The design is such that, besides keeping the hollowpoint from plugging going through walls and clothing, the polymer nose plug also helps it feed smoothly into the chamber. With actual velocities I have seen running almost 100 FPS faster than R-P and S&B (I have seen chrono results of 2025+ FPS), It should have plenty of thump under 100 yards!

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I have four boxes of it and plan to try out a box tomorrow or Friday. This round has worked flawlessly in all my handguns as well so it should work fine in my carbine. I think when combined with the carbine, this will be really nice for HD. The carbine is so light, easy to handle around a house or yard and it should pack a nice punch with this round's ballistics.

I am really excited. I know how effective the 110 JSP is, because I killed a 200 pound Blacktail deer at 97 yards with a single heart/lung shot. I can imagine what the Critical defense would do.

My dad, who served on Iwo Jima from D-Day +6 on. He was issued and used an Inland Carbine on Iwo (he was a General Motors man, and was tickled by that to the day he died). He generally only talked about humorous incidents on Iwo as a rule, though occasionally when I was older, and a veteran, he described some of the horror. He was there in the compound that was attacked the night of the "Big Banzai Charge." He said he really liked the M1 carbine, but the only allusion he made to having used it was "It never let me down..." I am assuming that he is referring to the night of the Banzai attack.

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Originally Posted by imarangemaster

I am really excited. I know how effective the 110 JSP is, because I killed a 200 pound Blacktail deer at 97 yards with a single heart/lung shot. I can imagine what the Critical defense would do.

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I recently read a review from a user who had killed deer with both Critical Defense and JSP's. In his opinion the CD bullet doesn't fully expand at carbine velocities. His recommendation was, "save your money and go with standard soft points." I've heard the same argument about Hornady XTP bullets, but don't quite believe it. - Bob

I find that hard to believe, based on the Gel Tests. If you compare them in Gel, the CD does not penetrate as much as the standard 110 JSP, expending more energy, sooner. If he is basing it on a single instance, it could be anything from shot placement, organ hit, bones struck, etc. I know there was a review comparing the two, but it was from a pistol, and the CD wasn't as good as from a rifle.

Since we started to discuss function of Federal HST in our carbines, I thought I would post a brief result of my range trip. It was raining so I made a trip to a local indoor range with 25 yard line and fired 35 rounds of the Critical Defense with one fail to feed. I am positive that it was a result of the magazine and not the round as the mag had unseated so all it took was a tap, rack and fire. I put it aside and had no more issues. This was one of the Korean made mags and it unseated a couple times later so it will be taken out of service. The Critical Defense fed fine and seemed quite accurate given that I was only supporting my off hand elbow on the bench and not using a bench rest. I changed targets and fired 50 rounds of PPU 110 grain fmj with very good results as well.
Having seen the ballistic gel test by Hornaday I do believe that coupled with my Nat. Postal Meter, I have a handy little home defense weapon.
here is a quick shot of the 8 inch shoot 'n see target using Critical Defense. I think with a solid bench rest this grouping would be even better but I am happy with the result and the accuracy of my carbine.

What kind of sight picture were you using? Were you shooting to point of aim?

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Originally Posted by CrossedCannons

What kind of sight picture were you using? Were you shooting to point of aim?

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I was shooting pretty much point of aim at the yellow center dot or maybe just a fraction below it. I noticed that at first I was holding above the center on the high shots so, I then adjusted to hold just a fraction below the center and got the better centered ones. I know on some of the shots I was a bit shaky when the shot broke but when I held a better steady position I got the centered shots.
I don't shoot as much anymore and with my eyesight going a bit now that I'm older it's a bit harder to clearly focus and stay steady on the POA so I figure if I aim center mass I will do well enough.

Nice. I got my CD ammo today. will load it up tonight.

Here's a picture of a 25 yard from my 6 digit Inland rebuild with the undated (year only) Underwood barrel with "0" ME from a solid rest. ( think this is the right picture, anyway. This carbine is the tightest one I have had since my Winchester in 1982 or so.) This was R-P 110 FMJ, but it shoots this well with the HP and my handload with 15 grains of WW296 and a 110 grain copper plated Rainier Ballistics bullet.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7/photo2-1.jpg

Nice shooting Inland for sure. My NPM has Buffalo Arms 11-43 barrel with a ME of fraction over 2. I think you will have no problems at all with the CD.

Thanks. The Inland was possibly a white bag gun. The finish of: receiver, the brazed trigger guard, slide, trigger, and hammer is matching darker grey overall (almost Charcoal) typical of later rebuilds. The bolt and some action pieces a lighter grey parked. I do know that it had a different stock on it with rebuild stamps before I got it (it was put into the lightly sanded highwood cartouched Inland stock to sell to me, and the nicer stock kept). The barrel is an Underwood: the finish is near 95-100% on the barrel, with a year only date of "-44" stamped and ordnance bomb stampings VERY crisp. The ME is "0" so I am not surprised it shoots so well. No import markings, either. To me, it is almost the ideal "mixmaster." While it is 6 digit, it obviously continued its service to the county through one or more upgrades.

Shadycon's story about keeping his carbine handy in a crisis reminds me of my own M1 Carbine crisis story. When I was an LEO, I used an M1 Carbine much of the time as a trunk weapon. It was used more than once of felony car stops, raids, and high risk arrest situations. My favorite story, however, happened after I retired. I know I have shared it before, but for those who have joined us since.

It was around 2004-2005. I had a house on 20 acres in the Sierra Foothills outside Grass Valley, CA at the end of a gravel road, surrounded by a thousand acres of BLM (Federal Bureau of Land Mis-management) While the road continued through my property, it was 4x4 only past me, and there was NOTHING out there except scrub oaks and Digger Pines of the sierra Foothills. We also had two cabins on the property, occupied by my wife's mother in one and her aunt in another. Late one night (actually early morning around 3AM) I was up suffering from insomnia while my wife and her relatives were absent the property at a family function in the Central Valley.

There was a parking area between the road and the house, that was lined with 2-3 foot diameter boulders to set boundaries. Both cabins were dark, as was my house, for the most part. Two of the three vehicles normally there were absent with the clan. My jeep was parked around by the back (den) door, on the side away from the road. I was in my recliner in the front room, lights out, with the History Channel on low, trying to sleep!

Suddenly I hear a vehicle with a somewhat loud muffler coming up the road from town. I look out the window through a crack in the curtains, and I see a blacked out, beat-up POS, nasty old, junky car slowly coming up the road in the moonlight. He pulls into my parking area towards the front door with the lights still off. In the moonlight (of an otherwise dark night), I see the car is full of 4 or 5 "hairy-scary-scumbagus-maximus, low life, hairballs. I had grabbed my M1 Carbine (30 rounder in the weapon, and two 15s in a Type I "stock" pouch on it) when I first saw them coming with the lights out on the road towards my house.

Just as the miscreants were starting to dismount the vehicle, I threw open the front door, turned on the porch floodlights, and and stepped onto the porch with the carbine pointed in their direction (though I could later swear it was at port arms only!) an shouted "Hello boys!" and something else. The driver's eyeballs got as big as coffee saucers, and I hear surprised profanities from inside the car. The driver slammed the beater car into reverse, bashing the rear end into the boulders, and then clipped them with the front end as he tried to quickly exit the area. The last I saw the vehicle, it was headed back to town with his lights still out. He did leave his muffler behind on the road, as even by our house, 5 MPH is the fastest you want to go on that rough dirt and rock road.

I am sure the miscreants had shown up, thinking my property was empty. My wife had earlier contracted a handyman and his helper (who both looked like "Warrants on the hoof" to do some brush clearing while she was doing the preparations for the trip. The bozos (who I fired after less than about two hours due to their absolute incompetence and the fact they had not yet accomplished a single thing while on my dime) probably overheard the women talking about and preparing for the trip.

There's a pretty good deal at Sportsman's Guide on Hornady Critical Defense, now through the 29th, I believe. Should show as under $20. - Bob

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Originally Posted by USGI

There's a pretty good deal at Sportsman's Guide on Hornady Critical Defense, now through the 29th, I believe. Should show as under $20. - Bob

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I saw Hornady Critical Defense .30 Carbine 110 Grain FTX Ammo, 25 rounds for $20.89 there.

Hornady Ammo, 25 rounds - 234267, .30 M1 Carbine Ammo at Sportsman's Guide

The M1 Carbine would be my easy first choice, it I could only have one firearm. Light weight, reliable, and always gets some range time every time out, because its fun to shoot. My eyes and the Inland are the same age, but with practice, and fine tuning handloads, the group averages keep coming down. But any ammo would do if needed. No, it's not the truck gun on the farm, or the night stand gun. We have a reasonable assortment of a little of everything. But if the day ever comes...when it really matters...the M1 Carbine will get the first call. Gotta get one of those Blackhawks though, to go along with it.

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Originally Posted by JimF4M1s

I saw Hornady Critical Defense .30 Carbine 110 Grain FTX Ammo, 25 rounds for $20.89 there.

Hornady Ammo, 25 rounds - 234267, .30 M1 Carbine Ammo at Sportsman's Guide

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Turns out it was a Buyer's Club only deal for an extra 5% off on ammo - and got over tonight at midnight CST. Would have shown as $19.85 with the code applied. Was not good until the 29th - sorry about that ! - Bob

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Originally Posted by gatorwade

Gotta get one of those Blackhawks though, to go along with it.

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They are fun and LOUD!!!

My sheriff's department issued USGI M1 carbines for a while back in the 1990's and we did a pretty exhaustive test on available ammo at the time. We used Winchester soft/hollow point and it was every bit as reliable as standard ball ammo. Though I don't necessarily recommend the .30 carbine as a deer hunting round, I have taken several whitetail deer with a M1 carbine using this ammo (all under 50 yards) and they were one shot stops.

I tested a box of Critical Defense and it functioned flawlessly as well, but the Winchester ammo is a bit less expensive.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...86155689-1.jpg

I have had good luck with the WW 110 JHP in the past, from USGI 15 rounders. I did have an occasional issue frona USGI 30s with the HP in the first few rounds. The Critical Defense has the advatage of the hollow point, with the polymer plug to aid feeding and also help expansion.

Maybe I should haul out one of my M1 carbines. Right now my HD gun is an AR in 5.66 with 2 30 round mags. I figure 60 rounds should get the "bad guys" attention.

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Originally Posted by C&R Poor

Maybe I should haul out one of my M1 carbines. Right now my HD gun is an AR in 5.66 with 2 30 round mags. I figure 60 rounds should get the "bad guys" attention.

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I like the AR as well. I have my AR-15 equipped with an Aimpoint Pro red dot scope leaning against the wall beside the bed for night time use if ever needed. Rest of the day I have my NPM carbine close by downstairs if needed. I think I prefer the carbine but with the red dot always on, I feel it is easier to acquire a target in the lower light using my AR(especially since it is used with both eyes open.)

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Originally Posted by daveccarlson

Mine is an Italian-used all-postwar F.A.T. 1977 marked carbine, that has a 1951 SA replacement barrel but an Inland/SG Saginaw receiver.;)

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With the under-powered Aguila ammunition, a few tweaks to the windage, and the rear sight pushed up to 150m, it put six of seven rounds in a 3-1/2" circle with one flier at 100 yards. Very nice!
At Cabela's I got some discounted Hornady CT 110gr. FTX cartridges. I've got a new "go to" carbine! And they are fun to shoot!

I've been rethinking the HD situation too. I tend to get an idea and just let it simmer for awhile - then one day something happens and the dominoes start to fall. One thing that's been on my mind for years is a pistol-caliber carbine. I will not use my M1 Carbine because it simply is no longer suitable in that role. When I first got it, it was my only long gun and I had plenty of ammo, mags and other supplies for it. I've been maintaining a Remington 11-87 Police in that role but I can't get the carbine off my mind. Finally I decided to sell the shotgun on GB, so I listed it. I got my asking price right away and I think it will go higher. Knowing I would get at least that much, I found a Kel Tec SUB 2000 in .40 S&W - Glock mags and pushed the button on that. I guess what's happening is I've had most of my stuff for 20 years or more and things are different now. There are new things for old purposes. Ammo has improved dramatically. I like the idea of the .40 carbine ergonomics a lot better than the long, heavy riot gun, and it's accuracy and velocity are both improvements over the .40 pistol. I'll be shooting 180 grain JHP.
One thing is still on my mind, and that is an AR in .30 Carbine. Olympic used to make one but they didn't get much action with it. Things are different now and the .30 Carbine is probably the best straight-case carbine round there is, particularly in JHP or SP. I like the AR platform so I'm looking for one of the old Olympics in .30 Carbine. I have 5.56 ARs of course but have no plans to fire anything like that in the house or outside. I'm in a typical subdivision and there are homes in every direction. I now think the pistol-caliber carbine is pretty much ideal for this situation. I don't even keep any ARs or AKs loaded anymore. If I keep getting older, there'll come a time when I'll realize that I no longer need most of that stuff. Possibly I have already started the process of culling out the herd. I guess my sons will be getting some neat stuff over the next ten years. But for now I'm still getting excited over getting a new gun and getting it dialed in and put into service.

I have a Beretta Cx4 subcarbine in 9mm that takes 92 mags. I keep it as an HD gun, but my initial intent was to do so as a defensive firearm either me or my wife could use effectively. I think there's much to be said for it: Very compact, reliable with factory magazines, accurate at realistic ranges, much more stable and user-friendly than a pistol but retaining the same basic controls, etc. I've run a few defensive carbine courses with it, and it is very much quieter than the ARs. It was the only non-AR in all the classes I took.

Nonetheless, my spouse never really warmed to it, and she actually greatly prefers the M1 carbine. The Hornady FTX CD ammo for the M1 carbine, the Winchester JHP, and the Remington SP cartridges all give the carbine a lot of utility for HD or having along on an extended road trip through the country.

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Originally Posted by INLAND44

I found a Kel Tec SUB 2000 in .40 S&W - Glock mags and pushed the button on that.

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Without getting into politics, home defense isn't a typical Canadian firearms application, I do have a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 in 9mm, with Glock magazines and I have found it to be a very handy rifle in a small package.

To keep our rifles in the non-restricted (long arm) category, Kel-Tec did a production run of 18.5" Canada compliant Sub-2000's which was much appreciated by our firearms community. Mine has been employed as a plinker and made a very slick pack rifle for when I was travelling on remote Northern roads alone. It could be all packed up in a very compact bag with ammunition, but could deployed rapidity if needed, in the travel bag it was discreet enough not to draw unnecessary attention should I had to walk back to civilization. A survival .22 would have been another option but being stranded on foot in areas where wolves, bears, and aggressive coyotes were a concern, a 9mm seemed the more prudent choice.

It doesn't have the overall character of the M1 carbine but the Sub-2000 is an interesting option in it's segment.

While my favorite is the M1 Carbine, in the back of the house I have a HiPoint 995 in 9mm. Took it in trade from a friend who wanted my Henry 22 for his son. Most people who have never shot a HiPoint give it a scoff. Those who've actually owned one know it is both the ugliest gun ever made, one of the most reliable, and very easy to handle. With a 16" barrel and pistol grip magazine, nicely balanced, and only 6 lbs loaded, it is very quick to handle. Mine is the stainless steel version, which, once I painted the stock desert sand, and covered the butt and pistol grip in real leather, now looks a bit more traditional. HiPoint's customer service is supposedly excellent and anyone whose ever had a problem just sends it back to the factory no questions asked -- quite unusual for a low-price-point gun.

If I was only to have one gun as a HD weapon -- pistol, revolver, carbine, or rifle -- my choice would be something that is not made and actually illegal (so it's out of the question). Years ago when I was just a kid I saw a picture of one of the Universal M1 pistols with (I think) a 10 inch barrel. Someone had put a standard full length butt stock on it -- so it would never meet gun laws today (probably was illegal then, it must have been in the genre of a sawed off shotgun in terms of size -- much like the pre-1930s Tommy guns, but in .30 caliber).

My Marlin M2 .22 carbine is the only other gun that is easier to handle than the M1 carbine -- which is incredible testament to this historic weapon.

What always amazes me is that few today seem to be able to replicate the M1 Carbine reliably, despite modern technology. When you think of all the logistics, engineering, supply chain, quality control, lack of resources, and incredible manufacturing ramp-up issues that were obstacles in 1942-43, I am just astounded that the manufacturing build-out was so good. The M1 carbine is just an incredible story and will remain so for generations to come.

'What always amazes me is that few today seem to be able to replicate the M1 Carbine reliably, despite modern technology.'

That ain't the half of it, man. 'Modern technology' can't replicate much of anything made in the 1940s and '50s. For example, if someone needed a new barrel for a battleship 16" gun, it could not be made. We simply no longer have the heavy industries we had then or the trained craftsmen to do the work. Now I'm not saying that's all bad, but it's part of the reason we (meaning mankind) are so 'into' the things of that era - the guns, the cars, the motorcycles, practically any kind of manufactured item, including toys. It's because things were made 'right' and could last for generations. My oldest brother is 81 and we were talking one day recently about when we were kids. I was telling him about the cast iron horse and buggy I played with. Turns out it had originally belonged to him, passed down to the next brother and then to me. Imagine anything made today having that kind of durability. The M1 Carbine is simply another artifact from that time, when men took pride in their work. Nobody ever expected the small arms of WWII to last into the 21st century, but many have done it with only minimal care.
It still is possible that an M1 Carbine could be properly made but the resulting gun would cost three times more than a good original today. This is the reason I will not modify my one and only M1 Carbine to make it suitable for tactical use. I would much rather use a modern carbine in a good pistol caliber that's easy to install a red-dot sight, a flashlight or laser on without ruining a valuable gun.

I have a Mid-Length AR15 carbine with a Bushnell TRS-32 red dot I built (suitably California Featureless) that I would use now if I stilled lived out in rural area, like when I lived on 5 acres in farmland in Illinois. Since I live in a rural "neighborhood," with neighbors close on either side (we have 1/2 acre lots), I chose the M1 carbine. I do feel confident with the Critical defense ammo, though. I use it in my Kahr CW45 and in my Bersa 380, also. My 9mm Glock 19 (I have carried since 1995) I still use the Illinois State Police load, Federal 9BPLE +P+! Nasty stuff!

I consider myself lucky enough to still have eyesight good enough to use the Carbine`s factory peeps sights, and prefer them over anything else. However, there are some optic mounts that replace the hand guard that look promising. It would be a way to update the Carbine`s usefulness to those that might have lost some visual acuity over the years, without permanently modifying the gun in any way.
I would however, not choose a rare collectable for this purpose.

For a home defense situation, hunting inside 50 yds and most close combat, the sights are never used. That is the reality of the situation. You point center mass and pull the trigger. I suspect that is why these EOTECH style sights are so popular with troops. It pays to practice point shooting with handguns and rifles. You can get really good at it if you apply yourself.

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Originally Posted by jakester

I consider myself lucky enough to still have eyesight good enough to use the Carbine`s factory peeps sights, and prefer them over anything else.

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Yesterday I bought an inexpensive laser boresighter (the kind that works out of the muzzle and has adapters for various calibers from .22 to .45. Collimated my Enfields, Winchesters, Marlins, and others. Interestingly, when rotating the boresighter in the muzzle, the boresighter wandered an inch or two in some rifles -- especially the Marlins, but was near dead on with the Enfields and Winchesters. I attributed the variance to an imperfection in the cutting of the crown. (any opinions mates?)

When I got to the 1943 M1 Inland Carbine, there was no variance at any angle of rotation -- dead on -- apparently a perfect crown. And the sights are still so easy to aim -- a real pleasure for old eyes. The only sights I like better are the diopter sights on the HK/PTR-91 (truly elegantly simple and easy to acquire target and PTR wisely added a windage adjustment).