Who is doing all the Enfield target shooting??

I was perusing some of the vintage sights on U.K. eBay and was astonished at some of the prices received for the Parker Hale and Twin Zero rear sights specifically made for the Enfield pattern rifles. These sights were made about 50 years ago, and although I recall seeing some articles in shooting magazines referring to either British or Australian matches, I have not found any recent articles about target shooting with the Enfield.

I have a good supply of BSA Martini Internationals, and collect sights (if they are reasonable enough), but was seeing the Enfield sights, especially the Parker Hale PH 5A sights, top the price chart.

I have only one Enfield left in my collection and unfortunately sold off my other two. I would like to get some direction of making them back into a target rifle. I doubt too much information would be found on this side of the Pond (USA), but some Brit's or Aussies might know.
Thanks for any help. Please reply (CC) to the Hotmail address below, cuz I am not on this forum very often. .:thup:

rapidfire10ring@hotmail.com Thank you

Don't know about others, but I've got a AJP Twin Zero on my L39A1, regulated for 7.62 NATO, and a PH5B on my Model 1917.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...gcbgtakj-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...zaifkd81-1.jpg

The 5B helped me shoot this target at 200 yards
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...bfc7cbcb-1.jpg

I am very impressed by both AJP and PH sights. High quality, robust, durable (if not abused) and affordable.

Keith

As fond as we all are of the .303, I think we're all adult enough to accept it's not a superbly accurate target round in the today's era, when people have come to expect - nay, demand 1 MOA out-of-the-box accuracy with modern rifles.

A .303 is still perfectly accurate for target shooting and hunting, of course!

Having said that, I know there are countless numbers of .303s set up for range use (with specialist target sights) in Australia - there's always a few in the racks at the rifle ranges I've been to - but my observations are they aren't generally being used for many Serious Competitions anymore, outside the accurised division of some of the Service Rifle competitions.*

*I'm fully expecting someone to come along and tell me their club has a full Lee-Enfield Range Rifle competition which has dozens of regular shooters with people regularly coming in from the other side of the country to compete, of course. :p

An American collector here, multiples of No 9, 9C, 9F, 9G, No5, No5a, No5b, No 5c, No 5e, also TZ, TZ 3/35, 4/47, 3/49, 4/68, PH4, 8/53, central, central bisley, Central no 4, post central model, BSA-Tippins, etc.

In any case when I started buying in the late 1990s, a set of sights cost 40 to 50 dollars. That said I bought a bunch of them when traveling overseas in NZ and NSW.

used to shoot them to see how well they could shoot. Learned every thing I could on regulation, set up a number of rifles and diddled to make them shoot. Shot the number 4 in local matches between 2008 and 2012 when I went over to the Swiss K31 rifles. Never looked back.......

I think with the renewed interest in Lee Enfields and the amount of people restoring them, it is natural that some people would like to have a good target sight. So as we have seen the price of rifles steadily increase so will the price of sights.

Since there is a finite number of sights compared to rifles we could possibly start to see them cost more than rifles.

Would the performance of every rifle benefit with the addition of one, probably not. On the other hand, would some shooters benefit with the use of one? I for one have started to appreciate them as my eyesight slowly deteriorates. Aperture sights and diopter sights allow me to focus only on the front sight which keeps me shooting.

I have picked up quite a few L39A1a over the last couple of years and almost all had no sights on them. I may never get around to shooting them, but would like to see them complete again with some period correct front and rear sights. It has been tough to find any sights locally so that auction site has been the best bet. They command high prices but the thought of bringing another rifle back to the ready status seems to override my common sense in not paying too much.

I need to round up all the rifles and loose sights one of these days and see how close I am to matching up all the rifles with appropriate sights.

Brian B

Commercial sights for the L39 were........... well, whatever the unit had left over from the old No4's that the L39 replaced or whatever the Oi/c the PRI chose to purchase (the PRI = the President of the Regimental Institution. The person who held the unit account of money supplied by the MoD for its own use). One unit I was with used ex P-H converted sights from their old No4T's while another used ex No8 sights where another hole had to be drilled on the charger bridge to accommodate the sight base.

So any of the commercially available sights are 'appropriate' in effect as they were supplied from Ordnance sightless. As were the L96's supplied as target rifles - as opposed to sniping rifles

What we are all seeing with the price of sights is a simple matter of supply and demand. The demand is increasing, the supply limited and diminishing, and the price is rising. Just look what has happened to the price of a standard Mk 1 milled sight for a No.4 Enfield. On eBay these have risen steadily and typically exceed $50 USD. Same for a No.4 magazine: over $50 USD on eBay. I had a spare No.1 mag in very good condition that I put on eBay a couple of months ago. I expected to get $50; received bids from around the world, and sold it for $75 USD. Same thing is happening with No.4 fore-ends; getting very scarce. On the other hand, take butt-plates; they are plentiful and can't fetch more than $10.

The good news is: our Enfields are becoming more and more collectable, and thus more valuable.

My advice is: if you think you will need parts in the future, buy them now, because parts will be considerably more expensive in a few years. The old warehouse suppliers that had hundreds or thousands of parts are now being depleted as the small eBay entrepreneurs scoff up parts at lower prices and then put them on the global market to the highest bidder.

I would say competitive shooting with Lee-Enfields is a real flop in the US of A, about as popular as Rosie O'Donnell pin-ups. . At my local rifle club we tried to get matches running at 100 yards, made up a bunch of the tin hat targets, our local computer wizard made up some very neat score books, we advertised the matches and.....nothing.

Tried it again the next year and ........nothing.

In fairness we cannot really even get much of a turn out for a Springfield or M1 match anymore, with Enfields we cannot get anyone (except me I will show up).

I have a couple with PH 5C sights but those I NEVER shoot? Have a buddy that has (had??) a couple of spare sights and they are anything but cheap now. In the early 60's I bought a 5C for $25.00 from Sidney I. Robinson in Winnipeg MB. If only!

The other factors are age and eyesight. Most shooters in the UK are 50+ their eyesight is going and so sticking a PH 5a on an SMLE for instance is really the only way they can keep shooting a SMLE. In some cases this applies to their No4s.
Also a number of shoots, such as the Scottish Classic Rifle Championships, are running seperate comps for target rifles of that period so it's quite easy to get into 2 comps insted of one by removing the sight.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

So any of the commercially available sights are 'appropriate' in effect as they were supplied from Ordnance sightless. As were the L96's supplied as target rifles - as opposed to sniping rifles

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Peter, I heard this for several years now but when I finally got my L39A1 it was important to me for the gun to mount a "proper" sight. I defined that as an AJP 4/47 Twin Zero graduated for 7.62 NATO. I was lucky enough to find one in almost new condition. Similarly, when I got the Model 1917 I decided to outfit it with a PH5B, in my opinion, the best target sight made for that rifle. Mine was new in box and apparently had never been mounted. I'm especially impressed that neither the 4/47 or the 5B require any permanent modification to either rifle to fit.
Keith

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Originally Posted by Frederick303

I would say competitive shooting with Lee-Enfields is a real flop in the US of A, about as popular as Rosie O'Donnell pin-ups. . At my local rifle club we tried to get matches running at 100 yards, made up a bunch of the tin hat targets, our local computer wizard made up some very neat score books, we advertised the matches and.....nothing.

Tried it again the next year and ........nothing.

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I've heard competitive target shooting as an organised sport generally isn't hugely popular in the US the way it is in places like Australia and the UK (where it's one of the few legal reasons to own a gun).

Obviously there's still plenty of people who do it, but I've had more than one of my American friends express surprise at the idea anyone would find firing an "old army rifle at things" to be a serious competition, especially when there's lots of new rifles about for practically nothing which are much more accurate and easy to get parts for.

Oddly, these same people see nothing odd about folks dressing up as cowboys and firing guns from Western movies at things. :dunno::D

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Originally Posted by Frederick303

with Enfields we cannot get anyone (except me I will show up).

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I will show too Frederick! Am now setting up my 2016 calendar...

I'm not a big fan of target shooting but did occasionally partake by borrowing the occasional L39 or sometimes the accurate L81's that were housed in the Armoury. The old RQMS that used to book the zeroing range and come down with me for a shoot told me that the real shooters zeroed the rifle at the 0-0 fixed/sliding scale mark on the range scale and ignored the rest. They just went by the clicks on the scale. Knowing that. say, 10 clicks was 200 yards and 12 clicks was 200 metres and so on up to 900 yards or metres. That meant they could use any of the sights (depending on the clicks per revolution of course. So any sight that was on the rifle was acceptable.

I also found it beneficial because by doing it this way, it was deemed to be an official sport so ammunition and mileage was on the house so to speak!

Growing up in the US of A organized target shooting ( national match shooting) was a pretty decent sport, with something like 34,000 rated (it they had a classification) shooters at its peak, sometime in the mid 1980s. For every rated shooter there was likely something like 5 or 6 shooters that fired at local matches but never shot enough registered matches to get a classification. In those days for each DCM club you belonged to (organized by the government) you got 150 rounds of free ammunition per year, which depending on the club usually meant if you were a newer shooter you got around 300~600 rounds per year (older shooters would fire at least once per year but not draw ammunition). Once you fired 150 rounds in competition you got the ability to buy 1 M1 rifle per lifetime from the government for 118 dollars delivered (94 dollars plus shipping and handling fee). The DCM club I went to used to have 18 to 27 shooters per match, mostly shot with M1, M1903 and M14 type rifles with a small smattering of .300 and 7.62 NRA match rifles.

If you went to the nationals as part of a club team your fees to shoot (which included ammunition) were less then the freebies you got (such as 5,000 rounds of ammunition for each team that fired in the NTI and NTT). Sometime you got freebies, such as one year our team go a case of 5,000 Lapua .309 D46 170 gr bullets that were surplus to government needs, just for showing up to shoot as a team (in addition to the team ammo allotment). Food and housing were Spartan, but cheap (like 2 bucks a night).

Of course back then Bianchi cup was the only action shooting event, so if you liked competitive shooting NMC was the main game, the only one related to military shooting. The traditional shooting sports such as pistol bullseye and National Match (NM) shooting have declined, simply stated they have slowly gone from an activity devoted to practical marksmanship skill to shooting activity devoted to high scores under ISSU conditions with all sorts of artificial aids (of course this trend dates from around 1975). As that happened it lost popularity and continues to decline. Then IDPS, IPDA, IPSIC, 3-gun and a whole host of other adrenaline based shooting sports came up along with F class in the 1990s for the precision minded folks, which is where most of the new shooters have gone (one or the other).


Also government support pretty much ended, the DCM became the CMP in 1996, government support of matches ended and with it issue ammunition. The CMP became devoted to making money and ended up being a wholly owned subsidiary of the M1 Garand collectors association. With it the focus went from encouraging shooting proficiency to separating well healed collectors from their money. I ran a CMP club for a number of years and the support was less than zero, though most older shooters were blinded by the stuff they could buy and so failed to see the adverse effect of the CMP policies. The matches we used to run that had 18 to 27 shooters now have 4 to 12 shooters coming out, and that in a club that in the 1980/90s was ~1400 members and is now ~2,200.


The ranges now are full of folks shooting AR15 and other black rifles, sitting on benches with optics shooting at distances of 50 to 100 yards. "Epically gay", to use the modern idiom.

In fairness a lot has to do with young men today, they are all playing "medal of honor-seal-sniper modern warfare" computer games, which are all adrenaline based. Such activities do not tend towards the more precision skill based shooting activities, they are drawn to 3 gun and other such activities. The three gun matches do seem to do well, though the skill of discharging 5 rounds with a rifle into a man sized target at 25 yards in minimum time is all together different from trying to hit a 12 inch bull at 600 yards slow fire. A completely different mindset.

Lack of access to modern (and not-so-modern) firearms here has brought a resurgence of interest in .303s and similar era arms, and shooting them in competition at a fairly high standard is fairly popular. Clubs have formed for doing so. Old-style S.R.(b) shooting evolved into T.R. once the .303 era ended and gradually this has become a rich man's sport - a converted Mauser or No.4 is no longer good enough at national event level - using rich man's ammunition, despite efforts to subsidise it somewhat for the young.
Old-style .22 indoor leagues are slowly dying as the generation that was content to do that dies off or retires and indoor ranges get increasingly closed down. The only young people who are exposed to shooting are the Public schools and the cadet corps, and some will take it up after school, perhaps many years after school, but not many.

The World War I Centenary is certainly helping people rediscover the old rifles too, though it has suddenly pushed the prices up in this part of the world as people with greater wallet sizes than understanding of old rifles decide they want "one of those Anzac guns".

For what it's worth, the service rifle folks where I shoot have made a conscious decision that, at least at club level, people are welcome to use sporterised military rifles in the Service Rifle competition matches; the price of "proper" service rifles keep going up and the first exposure a lot of younger shooters have is getting a cheap sporterised .303 from somewhere (perhaps an older, licenced family member).

We figured that having them show up at the range and having people sniffing dismissively at those rifles and saying "that's not original, it can get in the sea" wasn't going to help anyone - or the shooting sports generally.

There's a few target SMLE and No 4 rifles which show up as well and for new or older shooters they're welcome to join in with the regular competition. Since we all accept the rifles are far more accurate than most of us, the emphasis is on enjoying the competition and its spirit for the most part.

Obviously if you want to shoot competitively at state or national level then you're going to need proper gear, but service shooters are well-known for being a friendly and generous lot and people are often more than happy to share guns if someone's missing an appropriate one for a match.

My real interest in Enfield shooting dates to going to the Canadian Fullbore Nationals in 1996 and 1997, New Zealand in 2000 and NSW in Australia in 2002. Between the various trips I spent many happy hors on the rages with old Enfields and it set the hook. Went from a collection of 6 Enfields (which I thought very complete with a 2 - No1 , 2- No4, 1 No 5 and a P14) to a number I do not mention... which is pretty complete. unfortunately it is next to impossible to get folks to shoot a straight Enfield match and they are simply not competitive in any current US competition venue.

There is something to be said for being directed into a limited field of competition. It does seem to keep some semblance of direction and concentration of effort, which in the free range environment of the modern shooting scene is just simply lacking. Simply stated in a field as obscure as black power antique shooting, there are the following areas:

Traditional Kentucky rifle shooting (AKA friendship Indiana)
NSSA (shooting with muskets, aka civil war style)
Long range black powder (muzzle loader and cartridge)
Silhouette black powder (same course as modern rifles)
"Chunk" shooting (blackpowder bench-rest with traditional heavy guns)
Cowboy shooting (for muzzle loader revolvers)
Black powder trap (yes there are guys that do that.)
Modern In-line black powder bench matches.

With all these competition areas, it is very hard for any one activity to get the numbers of folks that used to be directed into one or two activities.

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Originally Posted by Frederick303

black power antique shooting,

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??? Is that a variation on silhouette shooting Frederick? Where do you find the black power antiques? And should you be shooting at antiques anyway?:madsmile:

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Originally Posted by Frederick303

unfortunately it is next to impossible to get folks to shoot a straight Enfield match

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You're in the wrong country for that. Over here, the BDMP holds a yearly "Enfield-Mauser Trophy" match. 3 classes: Enfield, Swedish Mauser, Other Mausers.

---------- Post added at 12:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 AM ----------

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Originally Posted by Frederick303

With all these competition areas, it is very hard for any one activity to get the numbers of folks that used to be directed into one or two activities.

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Very true. In some competition areas I find myself coming first and last, and wondering if I should bother next year. However, when next year comes I do it again, hoping that someone else will turn up, as for a couple of my antiques it is the only chance to see how they perform under competition conditions.

Patrick,

At times I do not do a very good job at proof reading, I suppose it is my grammar school education....

I meant to write antique pattern arms using black powder propellant....

Oddly enough if we do a Mauser match we can get folks to come out, I guess that is because there are simply millions upon millions of Mausers here.

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Originally Posted by Frederick303

At times I do not do a very good job at proof reading,

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Me too. It drives me mad that however often I proof-read my texts, the next time I look - there's another typo!

BTW. A useful tip is to turn off any auto-correct or auto-complete function on your PC. As I write both English and German, and sometimes both in the same text, auto-correction tries to turn English into German, or German into English ... or both into gibberish. It's quite enough work correcting what I have written, without also needing to correct what the computer thinks I ought to have written!

There is a military match at a club near me that is held around 8 or 9 times a year. Many categories depending on what you are shooting and your sights or optics. The odd Lee Enfield shows from time to time. There is also a military handgun match as well.

Three position, standing, kneeling or sitting and prone at 1, 2 and 300 meters. It is a FUN match and advertised as such and if you can't take some good ribbing then it would be best not to participate. Advanced sniper shoots at 2, 3 and 400 meters and that is the most competitive category but still lots of fun. Try using a SKS with surplus ammo standing at 300 meters and realize just how bad you can shoot on any given day. LOL

Cost is 5.00 for non club members and free if you do belong, usually have a few snacks/drinks free gratis and certificates for first three places in each category.

Held the end of the month on a Sunday and if anyone is in the Okanagan and wants to attend I would be happy to send a email with the dates, it really is a great hoot and I know you would enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

Where do you find the black power antiques? And should you be shooting at antiques anyway?:madsmile:

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Jokes aside, there are more genuine antique blackpowder guns floating about in still workable condition than many people think, particularly in the US. Personally I wouldn't be firing a 120+ year old gun unless I was absolutely, 110% sure of its provenance and safety to fire (for example, it had belonged to a family member or close friend AND had the OK from a knowledgable gunsmith), but from what I see on other forums, plenty of people do fire them - at targets both paper and four-legged.

I do agree there's possibly a bit too many competition categories nowadays, even for modern guns - for example, the SSAA Combined Services discipline can be divided at a basic level into "As issued or faithful reproduction", "Modified/Accurised", "Pre-1946 Sniper", "Post-1946 Sniper", "Black Powder Cartridge", "Training Rifle" and I think there's one or two others as well.

Within those categories there's different sub-categories which include categories for carbines, long-barrel rifles, antique rifles (musket and cartridge), modern "tactical" rifles, rifles made after 1946, and single-shot rifles. As has been noted by others in the thread, that technically results in a situation where a shooter could win their category by default (if they're the only person with a single-shot rifle at the competition, for example), or another situation where a 1942 Savage No 4 Mk I* is in a different category to an otherwise identical 1950 Longbranch No 4 Mk I*.

For what it's worth, in my observation the sub-categories are usually ignored - If you want to shoot a Jungle Carbine at 300m while everyone else is using Swedish Mausers or M1917 Enfields then that's up to you and good luck.

Just thought I'd post these couple of links

Sunshine Coast ANZAC Memorial Competition, North Arm - April 2015 - Queensland Rifle Association - QRA

303s at the QRA Queens - Queensland Rifle Association - QRA

There is a fair bit of interest in shooting these old girls in Australia. It seems to be gaining in popularity yearly. I love them!

plenty of shoots for them in New Zealand as well, finding good target sights is sure getting harder

In the 80's a lot of formal target shooting was done with Mausers, Enfields and Garands. Nowadays, the younger shooters are not attracted to formal competition that much, and if they do, AR15's etc. are used because they are regarded as modern, can be easily upgraded/personalized and accurate. Also the ammunition/ components for the larger calibers are getting very expensive. Lee Enfields are getting dumped, there is simply no demand for upgraded Lee Enfield rear sights.

BUT. The European firearms laws are about to be changed in all EU countries, simply forbidding all legal semi-automatic rifles such as AR15's, AK's, due to the recent terrorist attacks in Paris with (illegal) AK's. So, may be the use of the Lee Enfield and the demand for Lee Enfield accessories will pick-up again.

I think a huge part of the appeal from modern guns is they just work - they're all pretty accurate "out of the box" and don't require any fiddling around with to get great results with.

We're all fond of old rifles here but I think we can acknowledge they have their quirks which means getting the most out of them is part of the experience, but for folks in their 20s with limited time and funds, they don't want to be messing around with esoteric jiggery-pokery when they can put a mag in their gun, point it at the target, and know any time the bullets don't go through the centre when they pull the trigger is due to an operator error rather than a century-old gun not liking the only brand of ammunition available in the local gun shop.

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Originally Posted by Colonel Enfield

there are more genuine antique blackpowder guns floating about in still workable condition than many people think, particularly in the US. Personally I wouldn't be firing a 120+ year old gun unless I was absolutely, 110% sure of its provenance and safety to fire (for example, it had belonged to a family member or close friend AND had the OK from a knowledgable gunsmith), but from what I see on other forums, plenty of people do fire them - at targets both paper and four-legged.

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So True Colonel. My father had 88 flintlocks in his collection when he died, and he did occasionally shoot a one. I still have a half dozen of the best ones. But I'd never shoot them -- after 200 years they are all questionable, even with a small charge. And, if you've ever shot a flintlock, you know how inaccurate most of them are -- even if rifled. I'll leave my 18th and 19th century weapons on the wall -- great history, but not for today's use. There are plenty of black powder repros that are made for modern shooting. My father used a repro Brown Bess regularly in ceremonies, but it couldn't even hit a modern target at 100 yds!

All my shootable antique collection is 20th century (WWI or II), military grade, well made from the start, and in good to excellent condition to start. I have no fears about loading a standard cartridge and pulling the trigger on these.

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Originally Posted by Colonel Enfield

I think a huge part of the appeal from modern guns is they just work - they're all pretty accurate "out of the box" and don't require any fiddling around with to get great results with.

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There are people who are interested in shooting [the above group] and people who are interested in guns. And there are people who are interested in guns and shooting. The later usually are the most clubbable.

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Originally Posted by Seaspriter

So True Colonel. My father had 88 flintlocks in his collection when he died, and he did occasionally shoot a one. I still have a half dozen of the best ones. But I'd never shoot them -- after 200 years they are all questionable, even with a small charge. And, if you've ever shot a flintlock, you know how inaccurate most of them are -- even if rifled. I'll leave my 18th and 19th century weapons on the wall -- great history, but not for today's use. There are plenty of black powder repros that are made for modern shooting.

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Personally, I'm really surprised at the number of people online who appear to be restoring and firing Nepalese Cache muskets. Sure, the British-made arms were generally very well-made guns in their day, but their day was more than 200 years ago in some cases - and then they were literally left in a pile in a storeroom in Nepal and forgotten about until a couple of years ago. I can understand restoring them to blank firing condition for re-enactment - and I think if you were determined to make them go "BANG" again, that would be the way to do it -but putting a live charge in one of them seems a bit, well, bold to me. Doubly so for the Nepalese-made guns; I know they were fine in their day but 150 years of sitting in a Himalayan warehouse can't possibly have done anything beneficial to their condition.

In relation to our (comparatively) more modern interest though, I wonder if in 100 years someone will be making reproduction Lee-Enfields and Mausers for people to shoot? I'm surprised at some of the guns being reproduced (There's a market for a 1872 open-top frame cartridge conversion revolver, but not a Mauser C96 in 9mm or a Webley Mk IV in .38 Special?) so who knows? Perhaps in 2116 there will be people rejoicing at how they can shoot a "modern" Lee-Enfield in whatever the readily available cartridges are (or perhaps even as a laser rifle?).

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Originally Posted by Colonel Enfield

I wonder if in 100 years someone will be making reproduction Lee-Enfields

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I wouldn't be surprised. In my collection I have a reproduction of a 1874 Sharps and an 1866 Winchester -- all shootable. There are plenty of Colt .45 Revolvers being made today. And one of the most popular pistols is the 1911 Colt .45ACP. M1 Garrands and Carbines, now 70 years old, are being produced new today. When Lee Enfields get into the range of $1,000 USD, then a new Lee Enfield will be considered. Already there have been a number of conversions of No.4 rifles into No.5 carbines. Fake snipers are surfacing every day. If the price/demand is there, it will be done.

I wouldn't be opposed to modern reproduction Lee-Enfield rifles, (clearly marked of course) it might be a boon for the hobby by making shooter grade rifles more widely available. The following ammunition demand could ramp up a commercial Mark VII ball production to meet the need. Not that there is any lack of Lee-Enfield rifles in circulation now, just so many are sporters, drill and tapped, or homebuilt parts guns of dubious quality.

Never in my life did I think my $150 (cdn) matching No4 Mk1.* (sold with 300 rounds of Mark VII ball in bandoleers) would see a market surge to 4 or 5 times the purchase price in 15 years. A similar example of those rifles are quickly becoming outside the means of a casually interested shooter, especially in the wake of the Russian surplus Mosin-Nagants and SVT-40's that run from $100-300 and spit out surplus ball ammo at less than $0.30 a round. At the various ranges and gravel pits around I see new shooters trying the cheap surplus Russians on a tiny investment and really falling in love, an affordable L-E repro could target that group, or at least their next purchase.

I am sure many of you might shudder with the thought of cheap Lee Enfield rifles being banged out by shops like Rossi and Pietta, but if they did a better job than AIA's effort, the shooting community would probably respond favorably.

On the costlier side, there are some modern repro Springfield 1903 builds from James River which appear quite nice, although a bit expensive, but if a Lee Enfield No4 Mk1 T modern quality reproduction were offered at the $2000-2500 price point I would certainly purchase for range enjoyment.

I'd certainly be in favour of reproduction Lee-Enfields; I can see a large demand for SMLEs and Jungle Carbines in particular. A savvy manufacturer would probably also offer the SMLE in .308 (so technically it would be a 2A1), along with the Jungle Carbine.

I've noticed the challenge facing many Lee-Enfield shooters nowadays is that the barrels are increasingly worn/rusted out and replacing them is expensive - a new barrel is about AUD$500 and then you're looking at about another c.$200 to get it installed by a proper armourer. Add that to the $500+ you've already paid for the rifle and I can absolutely understand why so many potential service rifle shooters just say "Nope" and go and get a Swedish Mauser or a Mosin-Nagant instead.

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Originally Posted by Colonel Enfield

A savvy manufacturer would probably also offer the SMLE in .308 (so technically it would be a 2A1), along with the Jungle Carbine.

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Interesting idea. I bought my .308/NATO M1 Garand specifically because it had been converted to a National Match in .308 -- very available ammo world wide.

Someone who wanted to start a business could do what PTR did with the HK G-3s -- buy up a lot of good surplus parts and build rifles from them, machining some new parts when the New Old Stock parts gradually dried up.

One idea to get started would be to buy cheap Sporterized LEs with good receivers and butt stocks, and convert them into modern .308s.

If the WWI P-14s could be transformed into the Model 1917, this could happen to -- but alas I'm dreaming.

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Originally Posted by Seaspriter

If the WWI P-14s could be transformed into the Model 1917, this could happen to -- but alas I'm dreaming.

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The P14 and some M1917 were popular for conversions to 7.62mm/.308 target rifles in the UK, have a few actions etc that have not been messed with...... there are plenty of them still out there, with plenty of meat left in the barrel, just a simple process of turning the barrel down to original spec and sourcing the woodwork, not much interest for me at present but maybe one day........

getting 5Xs that are not worn out is quite hard. They get collected by collectors of sights FFS and then ppl like me want to shoot the guns. The three I have are worn out.