Who is doing all the Enfield target shooting??

[Patrick Chadwick]

black power antique shooting,

??? Is that a variation on silhouette shooting Frederick? Where do you find the black power antiques? And should you be shooting at antiques anyway?

unfortunately it is next to impossible to get folks to shoot a straight Enfield match

You're in the wrong country for that. Over here, the BDMP holds a yearly "Enfield-Mauser Trophy" match. 3 classes: Enfield, Swedish Mauser, Other Mausers.

---------- Post added at 12:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 AM ----------

With all these competition areas, it is very hard for any one activity to get the numbers of folks that used to be directed into one or two activities.

Very true. In some competition areas I find myself coming first and last, and wondering if I should bother next year. However, when next year comes I do it again, hoping that someone else will turn up, as for a couple of my antiques it is the only chance to see how they perform under competition conditions.

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[Colonel Enfield]

Where do you find the black power antiques? And should you be shooting at antiques anyway?

Jokes aside, there are more genuine antique blackpowder guns floating about in still workable condition than many people think, particularly in the US. Personally I wouldn't be firing a 120+ year old gun unless I was absolutely, 110% sure of its provenance and safety to fire (for example, it had belonged to a family member or close friend AND had the OK from a knowledgable gunsmith), but from what I see on other forums, plenty of people do fire them - at targets both paper and four-legged.

I do agree there's possibly a bit too many competition categories nowadays, even for modern guns - for example, the SSAA Combined Services discipline can be divided at a basic level into "As issued or faithful reproduction", "Modified/Accurised", "Pre-1946 Sniper", "Post-1946 Sniper", "Black Powder Cartridge", "Training Rifle" and I think there's one or two others as well.

Within those categories there's different sub-categories which include categories for carbines, long-barrel rifles, antique rifles (musket and cartridge), modern "tactical" rifles, rifles made after 1946, and single-shot rifles. As has been noted by others in the thread, that technically results in a situation where a shooter could win their category by default (if they're the only person with a single-shot rifle at the competition, for example), or another situation where a 1942 Savage No 4 Mk I* is in a different category to an otherwise identical 1950 Longbranch No 4 Mk I*.

For what it's worth, in my observation the sub-categories are usually ignored - If you want to shoot a Jungle Carbine at 300m while everyone else is using Swedish Mausers or M1917 Enfields then that's up to you and good luck.

[Seaspriter]

there are more genuine antique blackpowder guns floating about in still workable condition than many people think, particularly in the US. Personally I wouldn't be firing a 120+ year old gun unless I was absolutely, 110% sure of its provenance and safety to fire (for example, it had belonged to a family member or close friend AND had the OK from a knowledgable gunsmith), but from what I see on other forums, plenty of people do fire them - at targets both paper and four-legged.

So True Colonel. My father had 88 flintlocks in his collection when he died, and he did occasionally shoot a one. I still have a half dozen of the best ones. But I'd never shoot them -- after 200 years they are all questionable, even with a small charge. And, if you've ever shot a flintlock, you know how inaccurate most of them are -- even if rifled. I'll leave my 18th and 19th century weapons on the wall -- great history, but not for today's use. There are plenty of black powder repros that are made for modern shooting. My father used a repro Brown Bess regularly in ceremonies, but it couldn't even hit a modern target at 100 yds!

All my shootable antique collection is 20th century (WWI or II), military grade, well made from the start, and in good to excellent condition to start. I have no fears about loading a standard cartridge and pulling the trigger on these.

[Colonel Enfield]

So True Colonel. My father had 88 flintlocks in his collection when he died, and he did occasionally shoot a one. I still have a half dozen of the best ones. But I'd never shoot them -- after 200 years they are all questionable, even with a small charge. And, if you've ever shot a flintlock, you know how inaccurate most of them are -- even if rifled. I'll leave my 18th and 19th century weapons on the wall -- great history, but not for today's use. There are plenty of black powder repros that are made for modern shooting.

Personally, I'm really surprised at the number of people online who appear to be restoring and firing Nepalese Cache muskets. Sure, the British-made arms were generally very well-made guns in their day, but their day was more than 200 years ago in some cases - and then they were literally left in a pile in a storeroom in Nepal and forgotten about until a couple of years ago. I can understand restoring them to blank firing condition for re-enactment - and I think if you were determined to make them go "BANG" again, that would be the way to do it -but putting a live charge in one of them seems a bit, well, bold to me. Doubly so for the Nepalese-made guns; I know they were fine in their day but 150 years of sitting in a Himalayan warehouse can't possibly have done anything beneficial to their condition.

In relation to our (comparatively) more modern interest though, I wonder if in 100 years someone will be making reproduction Lee-Enfields and Mausers for people to shoot? I'm surprised at some of the guns being reproduced (There's a market for a 1872 open-top frame cartridge conversion revolver, but not a Mauser C96 in 9mm or a Webley Mk IV in .38 Special?) so who knows? Perhaps in 2116 there will be people rejoicing at how they can shoot a "modern" Lee-Enfield in whatever the readily available cartridges are (or perhaps even as a laser rifle?).

[Seaspriter]

I wonder if in 100 years someone will be making reproduction Lee-Enfields

I wouldn't be surprised. In my collection I have a reproduction of a 1874 Sharps and an 1866 Winchester -- all shootable. There are plenty of Colt .45 Revolvers being made today. And one of the most popular pistols is the 1911 Colt .45ACP. M1 Garrands and Carbines, now 70 years old, are being produced new today. When Lee Enfields get into the range of $1,000 USD, then a new Lee Enfield will be considered. Already there have been a number of conversions of No.4 rifles into No.5 carbines. Fake snipers are surfacing every day. If the price/demand is there, it will be done.