Newbie... Bren Gun Finish.

Good evening everyone. My Name is Barry and I am based over in the UK.

I have finally decided that I want to get into reenacting, and to start me off I have made a purchase of a Deactivated Mk 3 Bren. Dated 1955. Now I know that for WW2 stuff, I'm going to be pushing it, but sorry to the purists out there.

Anyway, I've got my Bren at home, but on inspecting the paint finish, it looks so different to a friends Bren who also has a Mk3. It looks like it has been painted with some thick black paint over some sand?! I've only taken a couple of pics, but I am after some advice on the finish and should I take it back to how it was issued, or leave as is?
It's such a shame that when deactivating these beautiful guns, proof houses butcher them.

Thank you for your time, any advice would be greatly appreciated, and I look forward to speaking with you more.
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It all depends on how much time and effort you want to put into it. Originally your Bren would have been finished in suncorite, a oil based black paint that has a slight sheen to it. It appears your gun was badly refinished over the blotchy original paint which has blistered.

With regards to proof houses, the 2 in the UK just proof guns. They don't carry out the work, that's undertaken by the individual or company who did the work. So you can find some very professional work using mills and power saws to those using angle grinders. Either way they all have to meet the minimum standard which is checked and certified by one of the proof houses.

Where in the UK are you?

The Mk3 Bren. The Bren Gun in its most rugged form. I have to say that it is a bit of a pxxx-poor finish! The original sunkorite and bake finish is in fact a spirit based. Someone has decided to paint it with that grotty paint which has pickled in contact with the whatever it is stuff.

I'd strip the gun so far as you can, dunk it in paint remover and repaint it in a bake-dry heat resisting paint. DON'T user a self dry heat resisting paint as it's crap. When it's out-of-the-oven dry, then paint it again - and again and again. Then spray it with oil while it's hot for the last time

Did I hear someone say that it's not original? No, but he ain't using it on the advance into Burma in 1945 neither!

Putting my Mystic Meg* hat on, I'd say that our Barry was from Oxfordshire somewhere in middle England - and my ouiga glass is hovering over......... Bicestershire!
*Mystic Meg; former psychic on UK TV.

Barry, if you purchased your Mk3 Bren from the same vendor as I purchased my Mk3 Bren about a year ago (which I also found to have had a fancy spray job done on it when I opened the parcel) you may find that you have also inadvertently purchased a quantity of shot blasting medium contained within the gun. If this is the case you really need to strip the gun as much as possible and wash the parts in a suitable cleaning product. I wont name the vendor because the gun was sold at a very good price and it may have been his supplier who did the shot blasting/re-spray work.

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Originally Posted by BarryPayne

I've only taken a couple of pics, but I am after some advice on the finish and should I take it back to how it was issued, or leave as is?

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Welcome and thanks for the pics. That always helps.

Should you leave it as is? That’s a good question to ask. You don’t want to damage it and reduce its value. In this case I don’t think it will damage it. At this point you would be restoring it.

Peter already gave you good advice on making it look the way it was issued.

Since it’s a display piece I will throw this out for consideration. You could take it to someone who can phosphate it. Done correctly it will look fantastic with all the engraving and stamps clear and crisp for people to admire. It’s not original but looks spectacular and you can always paint it later if you like.

There’s loads of good information on wood restoration in the restoration forum. Follow it and you will have that butt and pistol grip looking like new.

If you have time we would love to see your results.

The trouble with dewats in England Vince is that after 1989 or so spec, you cannot remove the barrel. That causes minor problems to the average Joe setting about refurbishing his Bren as you can't remove the bipod sleeve either. Once the bead blaster gets into the bipod/gas cylinder sleeve, it's a disaster! It has been said that some have removed the barrel in order to refurbish and then re-welded it back sensibly.

To be honest, and it might not apply here, some of those that I have seen that have stripped to 'refurbish' have given me cause for concern, thinking '.......if this has been rebuilt/refurbished, then what was it like before! Maybe someone ought to do a video tutorial similar to what I used to do in real life with Bren collectors groups (great people.....) at Warminster - where I'd see the various attempts at refurbishing.

Some of the things that used to fool owners was the
removal of the body and ejector locking pins,
the barrel nut/mag cover plungers,
carrying handle plugs, plungers and handles - using everything but the right kit!
Mk1 butts and fittings
Bipods believe it or not. Never seen so many butchered screws, locknuts and bent bipod legs
Ejection opening covers and catches, especially reassembling

Ah! Thank you, Peter.

I have never seen a dewat Bren here. They are usually converted to closed bolt semi-auto only or in their original condition.

There are some semi-autos that have the slide cut off just in front of the trigger guard and welded in. You can imagine the problems that creates.

The earliest attempts at a lightweight Bren did away with the butt slide forwards of the trigger guard. Apart from holding the ejection opening cover and the front mounting pin, it serves no useful purpose. Some say that none of those parts serve any useful purpose! So far as a lightweight Bren for the jungle, I never saw tripods out there although there might have been one or two in Ordnance somewhere.......!

Doing away with the front of the slide would have been better than welding it in there. At least you’d be able to get in there to clean.

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Originally Posted by Vincent

Doing away with the front of the slide would have been better than welding it in there. At least you’d be able to get in there to clean.

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My Historic Arms 7.62mm semi rebuild has the shortened butt slide. It works fine, but not sure how it would hold up in a dirty/muddy environment.

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Gentlemen,

Thank you very much for spending the time in viewing and more importantly, responding to me. You have certainly raised my fears about making the purchase!!

When I made the purchase, I did it over the phone asking for them to pick out a good quality sample that wasn't all beaten up. Wish I had known what to look and ask for! So, it cost me £250 whilst others were a lot more. When I collected it, they asked me to check it and again not really knowing what to look for, I thought that they were taking care of me.

Should I be looking at taking it back and asking for another replacement? Or do I go with this and treat it to a faithful restoration, which I am sure is likely to cause me upset, but in the long run I know that it's been done properly?

Someone has mentioned not original? What do you think has been messed with?

I have included a photo of where I think it has been welded, although I cannot see how the barrel was welded? The lever is firmly in place, and you are right.....it would be good to be able to get it undone in which to carry out any restoration.

Peter aka Mystic Meg..... You are correct. I am in Bicester, Oxfordshire.

Thank you again for your continued advice.

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Originally Posted by BarryPayne

What do you think has been messed with?

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The bits wot make it go bang.

I said that my new suggested paint job wouldn't be original. The gun is as right as rain. I've never brought one in my life so can't comment on what they're worth. But strip and clean it and it'll be OK. If you think that's bad, you should see some service guns. But once they've been through the system they come out like new..............

I only mentioned Bicester because the person before asked where you came from but hadn't noticed the Bicestershire in the box

There LOADS of good Bren stuff on this forum. It's the finest light machine gun ever to grace the battlefield. When you hear a Bren opening up there's a hidden voice inside inside that says '.....thank xxxx it's on our side'

Thank you Peter.
I will endeavour to look into ways in which to start the restoration.

And just so you know. I will keep up to date on this site, and try and progress my knowledge whilst trying to help others. I'm not here for the quick fix and run. :-)

Welcome Barry,
I bought a fully functioning, semi-auto only, Bren. When I proudly showed it off here, I was informed that various parts were not correct and it was really a mash-up of numerous aged parts. I was able to buy and change the buttstock, carry handle, bipod and some other things and get it looking more like the real-deal. I would never have known without the help of the excellent chaps on this forum. Here is my most recent photo, I have subsequently also added an L4 'bipod attachment sleeve' (or whatever it is called) after a suggestion by Peter.

Or........Peter, AKA: 'Plastic-Peg'...........:madsmile: LOL

You've totally lost me tankie........

There are small steel finishers that dip steel components in an acid bath that only affects any surface material. It is neutralised and then bathed in a chemical that puts a deep black chemically induced finish onto the steel. Wouldn't stand too much rolling around in the back of your old Bedford or FV-432 but does look very good. Saw a No32 and 42 done like it and it looked good..........

So I may have had some luck. A friend of mine has access to a glass bead blaster. If I can strip the lady back enough, I will get going with it. I will then look for somewhere that might agree to phosphate it!
Will keep you updated!

If you glass bead blast it, make sure you really degrease it before hand getting the media out of the nooks and crannies when it's glued to cosmoline is an absolute sh1t job!

From the technical point of view I think that you ought to find someone to phosphate it BEFORE you bead blast it as it starts to corrode (that's rust.....) the moment that the clean white steel leaves the bead blasting cabinet. And make sure that you fill the blind holes with a bit of tight fitting wood and replace the screw into EVERY threaded screw hole too.

A lot of steel fabricating manufacturers have phosphating plants - or they used to!

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Originally Posted by tankhunter

Or........Peter, AKA: 'Plastic-Peg'...........:madsmile: LOL

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Pete, It's a play on words Mate. Mystic Meg = Plastic Peg!....:madsmile:

Barry, if it makes you feel any better when World Wide Arms got hold of some ex Irish Army Mk3 Brens a few years ago and started selling them (U.K. De-activated) if my failing memory serves me correctly they were asking over £600. These were said to be genuine unmolested ex Irish Army in very good condition and were being sold at a time when there weren't many de-activated MK3 Brens on the UK collector's market. Currently there seems to be relative high numbers of MK3 Brens for sale hence the price has come right down. Quite why there are so many available at the moment I don't know unless, of course, the Irish Army purchased 50,000 Brens in the 1950s??? I wouldn't personally return it considering what it cost and also you have almost ran out of time because of the changes to the de-acc laws due to come into force on the 8th of April. No-one seems to know what exactly is happening with regards to de-accs in the U.K. after the 8th of April.

Oh, no......... Not the Irish Army again.......... that were (the ones I saw) accompanied by RAF paperwork and part numbers to equip the 70 plus Infantry battalions that didn't have air, armour or artillery support................

Thanks Gents.

I'm keeping her, and for an update.... She has gone to a friend who is a gunsmith and has said that the metal will be treated to a proper clean up and finish! I won't be able to take work in progress photos, but will certainly take some once it's done. Then I'm going to take on some of the fantastic advice given re woodwork and continue the restore!

Sorry Peter I couldn't resist it. One dealer (who I wont name) at Malvern, a couple of weeks ago, had a couple of long rows of Mk3 Brens for sale and went on to say that he had just purchased 500 MK3s. He'll have his work cut out to sell them all by the 8th of April. It will be interesting to see what he then decides to do with the remaining stock after that date unless he is planning to weld them into a solid lump of steel??? Barry when you get chance have a look at the serial numbers of the component parts to see if they all match. If you are lucky they will but most likely they wont or will be "forced" matched i.e. the numbers changed to match the match the master number on the receiver. The vast majority of Brens around today will not have fully matching serial numbers.

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

Sorry Peter I couldn't resist it. One dealer (who I wont name) at Malvern, a couple of weeks ago, had a couple of long rows of Mk3 Brens for sale and went on to say that he had just purchased 500 MK3s. He'll have his work cut out to sell them all by the 8th of April. It will be interesting to see what he then decides to do with the remaining stock after that date unless he is planning to weld them into a solid lump of steel??? Barry when you get chance have a look at the serial numbers of the component parts to see if they all match. If you are lucky they will but most likely they wont or will be "forced" matched i.e. the numbers changed to match the match the master number on the receiver. The vast majority of Brens around today will not have fully matching serial numbers.

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I'm pretty sure that I purchased my Bren from that same dealer!!
And thank you for the heads up. The numbers do match... And you are VERY right!! The barrel number has been forced matched. I thought that was strange. It does show the same number as the receiver, but when I saw Mk4 on the barrel, I thought it was a little suspicious.

Could we see a picture of you dressed up in your re-enactor's uniform/kit, please Barry.

Can I put in a bid NOT to see you dressed up?

All this talk of 'force matching' does make me chuckle............ It's what we did every day of the week, every week of the year. Only we didn't call it force anything. It was just good housekeeping or sensible economics! If we replaced a shot out barrel with a new one we'd always match the TWO barrels up to be a pair. So you'd have one, say, brand new to replace the shot-out one and another, part used but perfect to fit to the gun. That way, the gun crew would run both barrels together. Fitting them would inevitably mean fitting a barrel nut that would tighten BOTH replacement barrels.

Then GUESS what we'd do.........? Yep, we'd stamp the master number into the new barrel, bar-out the old number from the perfect but part worn second barrel and stamp in the same master number and do exactly the same with the replacement, used but perfect barrel nut. Now we'd have a perfect Bren with a pair of perfectly matched and serviceable barrels, correctly and properly locked onto the gun with a part worn barrel nut. Nothing force fit about any of this but just what we were taught to do.

Thinking back a few years, and I hope Skippy, Tankie and Son will prod me if I'm wrong, but I don't ever recall any of the gun crews, quartermasters, EME's or the UEI/PRE teams ever commenting about the use of used/perfect parts. Indeed, we still do it to this day on the GPMG's. Waste not, want not.

The same would apply to a butt slide. If a butt slide failed some test or another such as an excessively worn front tripod mounting pin or was excessively loose in the gun body it'd be replaced with a new or part used one off the shelf and the old one would be put back on the shelf (after being re-bushed at the big Command workshop with facilities). Months later that butt sllde would be tested and fitted to another gun. Perfect.....? Then the old number would be filed out and a new one carefully re-stamped to suit*.

So in a unit, old Brens and L4's could have had everything replaced and renumbered during the course of its 60 year life.............. with multiple numbers barred out and renumbered to suit.

* Later L4's and Bren butt slides were NOT to be number stamped on the rear but engraved on the rearmost section, left side, above the pistol grip

Peter will fully concur, when I say I know EXACTLY what He is talking about.

it has always amused Me & I'm SURE Peter & other Brother Armourers. When Enthusiasts & Fellow Collectors. Go on about non matching manufacturer marked parts/Components Etc.
Akin to 'Stamp Collectors' & in the Military Vehcile Collecting Circles. As 'Rivit Counters'. :lol:

What a LOAD of Old Boll......Er. Spherical objects that is!!:D
Now rest assured, If you have a Bren with differing parts stamped with differing manufacturers markings. DONT Fret/Panic!.....:move eek:

There is absolutely NO need to! Why?....I will tell you EXACTLY why not. Are you sitting comfortably?...Then I will begin. (Appologies to Childrens story Readers worldwide!) :madsmile:

OK, During the war, Parts/Componants were manufactured ALL OVER THE UK. By Large & Small Engineering contractors everywhere. The reason they were dispursed all over th place. Was so that If one factory got hit in a Bombing Raid. Another would be making similar parts, or could switch over. To making parts more urgently required. these parts would be sent centrally to Arsenals & Military Factories such as Enfield Lock Etc.
NO MATTER WHAT COMPONANT WAS MARKED WITH WHATEVER MANUFACTURERS STAMP/ID MARKINGS. They were ALL fitted to ANY of the guns on the production line. Coming through at ANY time during Manufacture. So you will see, it really Does NOT matter to have a gun. With TOTALY Matching manufacturers stamped componants! :thup:

This practice was also compounded, by Guns coming through workshops for total strip downs & Overhauls as well. IE: ALL parts were inspected for servicabilty. After degreasing/oiling. Then sand blasted, parkerised or blued where appropriate systems existed. The sprayed with the 'Special' Black Paint. (Today Suncorite is used) & baked in a special Oven for 30 mins till the finish was hard. The everything was Oil Dipped.
And the guns reassembled & Gauged. Final out Inspected, & sent back to the Appropriate units or central Ordanance Stocks.

So as you can see, it REALLY dosent matter about having totally matching Manufacturers marks!...However...there are 'People' out there who are MORE than happy to sell Legal Parts to you. If you want to part with your hard earned cash. To 'Match up' your guns.
So they ARE all matching in ID stamps!.....my attitude is: 'WHY one earth bother? When all that Cash could add up, & go towards ANOTHER Gun!!.....:thup:

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Originally Posted by tankhunter

So as you can see, it REALLY dosent matter about having totally matching Manufacturers marks!...However...there are 'People' out there who are MORE than happy to sell Legal Parts to you. If you want to part with your hard earned cash. To 'Match up' your guns.
So they ARE all matching in ID stamps!.....my attitude is: 'WHY one earth bother? When all that Cash could add up, & go towards ANOTHER Gun!!.....:thup:

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Do people really do that, match parts by manufacturer on dewats? It’s their money to spend as they choose. But I thought the whole idea was to preserve the history of these old guns? To me the more barred-out numbers, patches, etc, means the gun has some history. It had to be used to need those parts changed.

At least there’s no danger in matching parts by manufacturer on a dewat. Here we see it on live guns and it’s often dangerous. People change things like breech blocks. Then they don’t check the case headspace and are not always lucky.

The only important number to us in the real world and the number that was not changed was the master number on the body. And if the truth be known, then for reasons best known to whoever............... Anyway, sometimes that number has been known to have been 'altered'. But very carefully.......!

To the world of Armourers, it's correct when the visible numbers match. Those that are barred out or lined through don't count.

Can you just imagine in a unit or a large Field workshop an Armourer asking his fellow Armourers if they have a BSA marked sling loop or a CRD piston that he might use for a concourse 'impress-my-mates' restoration........... But I think we're flogging a dead horse

RE: Flogging a Dead Horse.................How Many Dead Horses do you Wanna Buy Gov?.......;) :dancingbanana:

But can you really call a Bren a John Inglis Bren if the only part made by John Inglis is the main body if all the other parts are made by other manufacturers for example. Surely it should just be described as a Bren Gun. Dealers seem to advertise their de-activated Brens on who ever manufactured the main body. For example my MK1 Bren was advertised and sold to me as being made by Enfield but about the only part actually made by Enfield is the main body. Like-wise my MK2 Bren was advertised and sold to me as being by John Inglis yet this too has numerous parts by other manufacturers. Surely both of these Brens should have been advertised as simply Bren Guns going by what Peter and Tankhunter say. All of the serial parts on my MK3 Bren match and most certainly haven't been changed with the exception of the barrel.


Is there some kind of formula whereby having a certain percentage of parts made by a given manufacturer a gun can take on that manufacturer's identity???

Nope......... A Bren is identified solely by the marking on the side. A Mk1 Bren with a Mk3 gun butt slide assembly and a pair of shorty Mk4 barrels and, say, a set of Mk3 bipod legs is still a Mk1 Bren according to the books. It doesn't matter one jot to us. Ok, fair enough if the civilian owner wants all Mk1 parts on it that's a matter for him. But we have photographic evidence of Mk1 guns fitted with Mk2 butts at the factory - so where does that leave us.

And what about Mk2 Brens made and assembled with parts that have come from all over the Country. Body from Derby, Piston post from Gateshead, Piston from York, gas cylinder from CRD in Falmouth.

I think the military firearms collecting hobby has come to assess firearms like collectible cars, well documented, numbers matching and everything "just so". Unless it's a Jensen Interceptor, then it's basically the Peddle Scheme No.1 of the car world.

What if someone wants a collection that shows some of the changes that were made to a gun over its service life?

I am not talking about matching parts from manufacturers. I am talking about making examples that show how a gun was when it entered service and an example of one with all the modifications made over its life in service. The point is to show what was changed, and you can’t do that without an example of before and after.

Peter’s Sten and Sterling books do a wonderful job of illustrating changes made to those guns. I am guessing the Bren book will too?

You can read why a part was changed and see pictures, but it’s not the same as having it in your hand. I read about the Bren MkI butt shoulder plate and got the idea more or less. When I found one it became crystal clear in an instant what the problem was.

Part of the fun of collecting these old guns is to show what didn’t work. That has to be why Enfield collectors pay a premium for No5 “Jungle Carbines”.

Whilst I 'spose its peachy to have an All Matching yada yada I concur that if it has that aspect well and good because chances are that after years of conflict there would be parts that have been changed out in the field by the forward workshops and if they were not then they probably stayed with the home guard who had progressed from sling shots and pikes once production lines managed to make up the shortfall after the Dunkirk saga.
If it is a mismatch then it has two possible reasons one as mentioned and the other made up from spares after the war perhaps the main thing is be happy with what you have for it is a part of history that will never be repeated and no matter which one you have they will still draw the oohs and ahhs.

With my 5MD 1916 303 MkIII I had to source parts because when I brought the thing they were not on the rifle, full safety, magazine, sling, oiler, pull through so I had no choice to troll the net for quite a long time and at great cost to get period correct items (Check out the cost for a WWI Lithgow oiler!).
So I am happy with what I have did it go to France I do not know all I know is I respect its heritage and for me it is a great piece along with my 2 other Lithgows a 1921 which has been discussed here on this site and my 1945 OA or BA (to lazy too go to the gun safe.)

Its all about that period in time and now we can have the luxury of collecting them along with discussions about them though let us never forget the sacrifices made not only by the troops who laid down their lives then and now so we can do this but also the civilian workers who slaved insane hours to produce them and also lost their lives through aerial bombings by the Luftwaffe and industrial accidents.

I don't disagree with what Peter says with regards to replacement parts etc and the changing of serial numbers to match the master number and I fully understand the reasons for it in the context of a military organization. What I have a real problem with is dealers/traders trying to sell something if it isn't what they say it is. For example if a Bren is for sale and the only part which is made by Enfield is the main body, with everything else made by other manufacturers, then I don't see how it can be advertised as being by Enfield. Likewise, if the serial numbers of the parts of a gun have been changed to match the master number I don't see how it can be simply called a fully matching serial numbered weapon and a premium charged because the numbers all match and this is why I prefer the term force matched serial number. Like it or not collectors generally prefer fully matching serial number guns and will pay a premium for it. Perhaps there is another form of terminology that armourers use when the serial numbers have been changed to match the master number; if there is what is it, please?

Put simply, when we change numbers (or in thecase of, say a new barrel nut, we simply add the number, we do it for a reason. There's no special name for it except to satisfy the safety of the gun.

If a dealer does the same to a deact, then it's nothing to do with the safety of the gun or the requirement of any official paperwork such as the EMER or other regulation. I suppose if you were being pedantic, you could call it downright fraudulent practice or obtaining money by false pretences/deception. You could try to get the trading standards people to sue them - or do it yourself - but it ain't going nowhere. When you buy an MGB from the MG factory you don't expect the alternator to be made by MG (LUCAS) or the exhaust manifolds (Broadfields) or the screens (Tyneglass) or the bodyshell (Pressed Steel/Fisher Ludlow)......... or even the car to be made at its spiritual home (Abingdon) See what I mean?

As for your Enfield made in Liverpool or Glasgow............ Well, let's not even go there........... I am just injecting a bit of humour - but realistic humour into the subject

Generally the term I have heard is "Forced Match" common in surplus Soviet weapons, serviceable guns are made up from the parts of others. The action serial number being held as "master" and all other components are either scrubbed of their original numbers, overstamped with a series of XXXX's or struck out with a Line Stamp, and the action serial is forced onto the part. usually this occurs with an electro-pencil and is plainly obvious, sometimes stamps are used.

These rebuilds can occur anywhere along the life of the firearm, either during breakage in actual service, routine mass overhaul, preparation for war stock, make work projects, and by the exporter prior to being sold on the commercial market. Then later comes the dangerous one, some guy in his basement with a belt sander and an engraving tool or knock off letter stamps, building guns from scrapper parts, to whom the term headspace means not hitting your head through a doorway.

Speaking to western weapons, I agree that it seems to be dishonest to call a "forced matched" gun as all matching, but there is a difference between "all original" "Unissued" and "all matching" A collector may seek "all original" or "unissued" specimens, while thinking "all matching" is the same thing, which it is not. The advertising is probably held against the manufacturer of the receiver, main body, or otherwise largest foundational part to which all other parts are attached. Misleading? perhaps, but an Enfield body cobbled together from Chinese, Indian, and parts made of cheese is a very different thing from a properly assembled gun with mixed parts that have been re-numbered and expertly fitted.

Another angle is to a military organization, an all original gun that is broken is of no use, but an all matching gun that barks is of no matter to anyone.

This whole thing will become a non-issue should we ever see modern military firearms on the collector market, live or deactivated, most are only a numbered receiver, all other parts are Lego, even optics are independently numbered and accounted.

There was one well known trader who happened to get hold of a few refurbished Brens a while ago and advertised them as if they had somehow come out of the factory gate and then got stuck in some kind of time capsule, packed in grease, for nearly 80 years. Being involved in collecting for some time I knew what questions to ask and it turned out that they were simply refurbished Brens that had come out of storage (then been de-activated). The price being asked for them was a fair price for what they were- refurbished Brens but why on earth it couldn't have been stated in the advert I don't know. I always find it best to ask questions by e-mail rather than by phone that way you normally get a written (e-mail) reply.

I suppose it's because even if an unopened box of Brens straight out of the factory couldn't be described as new or brand new 60 years later. The wording of the current sales of goods and services act put paid to that. Worth noting that nothing goes back into war reserve stores or any stores system unless it is in perfect condition. So anything that comes out of UK war stocks for sale and in this case, eventual deactivation must be perfect(?)

I agree with Vincent. Changing out existing parts that are in spec and functional on military firearms really is destroying the history of the weapon in my humble opinion.

No updated news is good news (hopefully)

I would be interested to know the name of this finishing process from this company, would it be normal hot blacking or a pre dip phosphate process.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

You've totally lost me tankie........

There are small steel finishers that dip steel components in an acid bath that only affects any surface material. It is neutralised and then bathed in a chemical that puts a deep black chemically induced finish onto the steel. Wouldn't stand too much rolling around in the back of your old Bedford or FV-432 but does look very good. Saw a No32 and 42 done like it and it looked good..........

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Look up steel or metal finishers in the phone book and they'll probably tell you - and do what you want too!

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Originally Posted by Topfmine

I would be interested to know the name of this finishing process from this company, would it be normal hot blacking or a pre dip phosphate process.

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Most blackening pre dips sold to gun enthusiasts and gunsmiths are just a diluted sulfuric acid solution. It’s the same stuff that’s in car lead acid batteries.

It is mild but really burns your hands if you get it on you. And especially if it gets under your finger nails - as I quickly learned. Another problem is that if it's used on double skinned or fabricated, wrapped items, such as bipod legs then it MUST be completely neutralised before blacking takes place

A wood worker I used to work with would always wash his hands first.

Still waiting for an update. A friend of mine has also made a purchase, but at least his came in a slightly better condition!!