Very Early Inland. Possibly Unaltered

Greetings,
I posted this on another forum but it didn't seem to be as active as this one, and I didn't get a whole lot of feedback.

I have recently purchased an early Inland that I *believe* may be a complete original. It has a serial number in the 22xxx range which is what initially got me interested. I paid $1,000 so I don't think I'm going to get hurt if you guys find any discrepancies but so far everything is looking right on.

My one uncertainty is the butt plate. It has the straight checkered plate. That being said, there seems to not be much consensus around when the switch from diagonal to straight was made, and I have seen other, similarly serial numbered pieces sold as original with the straight checkering.

I have taken pictures of the pieces that I know to be key indicators of correctness such as the "S" on the flip sight, and the stock markings. The three stampings in the sling well, and the proof stamp on the pistol grip are the only stampings anywhere on this stock. I.e I don't see any indication of an arsenal rebuild.

I would appreciate any and all views of the album and opinions on correctness, and possible value(although it's not for sale, like to know where it stands).

I do not have a bolt disassembly tool so I have not tried to take it apart. If there are any further pictures that would help with diagnosis, let me know and I'll get them posted.

The sling is a repop but the oiler is original to the gun. I'll probably ebay a correct sling for it.

http://imgur.com/a/g68aF

Hi again: My thoughts are still the same. Very nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can't give you a good enough reply the your questions.

Very nice carbine...

On the butt plate, the diagonal and square style were reported throughout Inland's first serial block range. The key to many very early Inland carbines like yours is the finish. I see some things I like and some things that could be due to storage of the carbine. Can you post some additional pictures of the left side of the carbine out of the stock, but with the trigger housing still in and maybe one from the top with the barrel band pushed forward of the gas cylinder area? Those are some of the weakest spot welds I've seen on a type one barrel band.

Thanks

I still go along with Shady on this. It's probably worth a few hundred more than you paid. You might get some new input on the Carbine Club Forum.

Thanks Shady and Jack! Good to see you from the other forum too!

Deldriver thanks for taking a look and the input about the butt plate.

I'll get those pictures posted after doing the Mother's Day thing for the wife today.

I have added the images you requested as well as a few additional ones. Would you mind educating me about what you're looking for? Always want to learn new things from the experts.

I've also uploaded a few pictures of something on the stock, right by the M1 Carbine stamping I've never noticed before. Not sure if it's just a hickey in the wood, or if it's some sort of stamping. I'm going to research but if anyone knows what the mushroom looking thing is I'd love the info.

Three on the stock are ordnance mark, flaming bomb and Overton Lumber stamp...is that what you refer to? Or do you mean on the top left edge? I suspect the stock has been sanded at the bottom which would suggest further issue by another country at some point, perhaps that's what it's from?

I'm familiar with the three markings in the sling well.

There is some other sort of something on the top of the stock, even with the words at the front of the receiver. Almost looks like a mushroom or something.

Might just be a ding in the wood but it kind of looks like it was done on purpose.

A thousand spent very wisely in my view. John

Your carbine looks better with the additional pic!!!!:):super::beerchug:

Nice looking Carbine....Stock looks to have been Sanded, but overall nice Carbine.

Frank

Thank you.

I'm curious what makes it look sanded? There are some areas like around the pistol grip where some of the luster has worn off but really only in areas that see a lot of hand action.

Entirely possible I'm missing something though.

I think they are referring to the lower part of the stock where the trigger housing sticks out below the wood.
If it was mine I would steam the stock, re oil, and enjoy it!

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Originally Posted by shadycon

I think they are referring to the lower part of the stock where the trigger housing sticks out below the wood.
!

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Nice carbine. Looks original. Inlands until late 43 all have the wood cut like that. Trigger housing sticks out below the wood. I have early Inlands, and they are all like that. Yes, the mark you are referring to on the top left is common on early Inlands. Some sort of stamp. Yes, straight pattern buttplates are common in the 1st block. As far as the stock goes, if you put any steam on it, you will kill the patina in that area. Will lighten the area up and ruin it. Best to do as little as possible. Maybe a bit of raw linseed oil, but that's it. Best way to kill value is to clean the wood. The wood on your carbine looks like it has never been messed with. Like I said, best to do nothing to that beautiful stock. Sent you a PM

Thanks Volvo and everyone else. I have no intentions of modifying the gun with the exception of putting a correct sling on it. I figure since the oiler is original, the sling won't hurt anything to put on.

I am very much enjoying learning from you guys on this and appreciate and all comments. My other carbine is a Standard Products arsenal rebuild. Not a re-import as far as I can tell, but still a mix-master. This was the first one I've seen in person that I suspected was all original and I couldn't pass it up.

Volvo: I had a beat up S-HB stock that I steamed with a tea pot. I started at one end and went to the other. a lot of old oils dripped out. most of the small dent disappeared. No light spots, the finish stayed dark. I re oiled and it has a nice dark finish. I did not boil it! I did not put in box and steam it to death. I did it slow and a little at a time. It worked for me and you would never know it was steamed

The stock has apparently been coated with varnish, possibly boiled linseed oil. This is not correct and should be fixed. All you have to do is to steam it which will de-gloss it. Military stocks did not have a shiny finish. Such a finish would have prevented it from being deployed. You have an exceptional original blued Inland - the stock should be flat to match.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...qiwmmhaq-1.jpg

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on the finish. The finish matches my other carbine, and every other carbine I've ever handled.

A quick google image search als shows a somewhat "gloss" like finish and not the flat that you indicate.

***edit****

I'm also taking these pictures right under an overhead light so might be getting some excess shine due to that reflection.

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Originally Posted by EinsteinTaylor

I'm curious what makes it look sanded?

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Yes, I was referring to the area immediately around the trigger and mag area. Just because it's a bit more receded than I'm expecting it to be, higher that is. Perhaps not sanded but it looks shallower?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EinsteinTaylor

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on the finish. The finish matches my other carbine, and every other carbine I've ever handled.

A quick google image search als shows a somewhat "gloss" like finish and not the flat that you indicate.

***edit****

I'm also taking these pictures right under an overhead light so might be getting some excess shine due to that reflection.

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Seeing a bunch of carbines in the wrong configuration does not make my statements wrong. Avail yourself of the M1 Carbine manuals and read it for yourself. But anyone should be able to understand that you don't have a glossy finish on a military weapon. At least not by design.

Military weapons have a flatt or matt finish on the wood...

Great pictures! The more I look at it the better I like it. BTW, that mushroom shaped mark is just a dent in the stock, not a significant marking. Maybe that happened when the marine dropped it on the beaches of Iwo Jima. Mine still has shrapnel in it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JackP

Great pictures! The more I look at it the better I like it. BTW, that mushroom shaped mark is just a dent in the stock, not a significant marking. Maybe that happened when the marine dropped it on the beaches of Iwo Jima. Mine still has shrapnel in it.

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Shrapnel?

I'd like to see a picture of that.

Just curious, but would you call the overall color of this carbine blackish or more greenish? Some of your pictures show one color while others show the other color. Inland used a black oxide finish until the Spring of 43. Your carbine would have certainly gotten such a finish since it's so early in the first serial range block. Also, Inland grit blasted their carbines with the stock on. This left a two tone appearance that is unmistakable on the left side of their receivers. I don't really see that on your carbine, but that could be because of general wear or even a different finishing technique was used. First block Inland carbines had many changes going on is parts and finishing processes. I think the first block of Inland carbines could be the most interesting of all carbine serial ranges because of the changes that went on.

There are a half dozen other places on this carbine that looked burned with shiny metal showing through. What else can it be? That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...jttowpmi-1.jpg

Could be...makes sense. That's the sort of thing that leaves you bleeding and you can't figure what actually happened.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deldriver

Just curious, but would you call the overall color of this carbine blackish or more greenish? Some of your pictures show one color while others show the other color. Inland used a black oxide finish until the Spring of 43. Your carbine would have certainly gotten such a finish since it's so early in the first serial range block. Also, Inland grit blasted their carbines with the stock on. This left a two tone appearance that is unmistakable on the left side of their receivers. I don't really see that on your carbine, but that could be because of general wear or even a different finishing technique was used. First block Inland carbines had many changes going on is parts and finishing processes. I think the first block of Inland carbines could be the most interesting of all carbine serial ranges because of the changes that went on.

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It's definitely of the parkerized style. I just learned of the two tone effect on some of the earlier ones and need to take it back apart to see if that exists.

I know there is a definite two tone look like where the barrel meets the receiver. That stood out to me pretty clearly. Need to check the receiver itself though.

Will update.

I think that 'two-tone' receiver was only on the blued ones. I've never heard of sand-blasting a gun with the stock on. Perhaps they had a dummy stock for that purpose? Sounds like way too much trouble to go to for no reason. On the Parkerized ones they definitely blasted the whole parts. Being Parkerized, I'm looking for the 'white' band near the gas lug where they left the barrel band during Parkerizing, moving it forward for assembly. Maybe with the early ones the band did not get finished with the barrel?
It is a beautiful carbine for sure. I'm not picking at it, just trying to learn something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deldriver

Also, Inland grit blasted their carbines with the stock on.

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That's nonsense, the carbines were not grit blasted while in a stock. In fact, the whole carbine wasn't even assembled when the grit blasting took place.

After looking again I think my rifle has the black oxide finish as opposed to parkerizing. One of the members graciously sent me the carbine club newsletter that explains this very well. Like many I was confused on the finish appearances.

According to the newsletter the two tone occurs on the receiver from being held on some sort of jig and sand blasted prior to finishing. The earliest observation of this was on receivers in the 50,000 range.

Mine being in the early 20,000's would be well prior to when that has been observed and a closer look at the sides of my receiver seems to confirm this.

Crazy how deep down the rabbit hole you can go with these things.