Matchless WD G3L

This is what I,d been looking for before I bought the other, only when I was looking for some spares I seen a classified on ebay so the rest is History, had to sell some things from the toy cupboard but worthwhile, sad to see one of the items go as they are rare but its gone to a good home.....

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Do you know the age, big duke, I'm guessing late war?

September 1943, but there is a discrepancy I need to sort on the dating certificate from the Matchless owners club as 2 digits of the frame number are the wrong way round so there is a difference of 4000 bikes, although still part of contract 4555 which was a total of 8000 bikes and this was late 43.

There is a plate on the tool box that has a Chassis Contract number and catalogue No, in some cases these come from different bikes or are original to the box but have been fitted to another bike, in this case everything checks out thanks to Roy on the HMVF (Historic Military Vehicle Forum) who has some very nice vehicles and been a great help.

With the info he provided, I now have the Census number as seen on all or most WD bikes with a C prefix.

Did a temp repair on the oil supply pipe yesterday just to get some oil around the system and to check the pump, I wanted to kick it over to see if the magneto was doing its job as it looked a bit neglected, with a good kick produced a nice spark so a quick clean of the carb and a temp fuel tank rigged up should get a start.

Nice one Geoff, just be careful of the family jewels if you sit on the seat in that condition.....:madsmile:

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Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Nice one Geoff, just be careful of the family jewels if you sit on the seat in that condition.....:madsmile:

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Thanks Paul, the jewels have had there moment in time......:lol: strange thing regarding the seat/saddle, I asked on the HMVF regarding canvas ones I've seen, seems to have sparked some interest as the Canvas ones were previous thought to be from the Gun layers seat on Heavy Artillery.... but its been said they were covered in Rexine too. So I'll hold out regarding the seat, the rear one is an addition I think, it may of replaced an original but its from an earlier bike as it has the central rib to fit over the central rib mudguard. there is a few other bits too but I'm very happy ..... (strange the wife doesn't feel the same) but her phone box is coming along nicely so all is well.

Hi Geoff, very cool looking bike mate, I haven't ridden in years, but that just gives me the urge to get some flies in my teeth again!

Well done, how has the addition to the fleet gone down with the boss?

Could you describe the controls on the left handlebar? I'm guessing that they may be the clutch, or throttle lock and choke or spark advance? Is it positive ground? Sorry for the stupid questions but you don't get to see many really cool bikes like that one around my parts anymore just the usual overpriced garish user friendly wanna bee's with sawed off pipes. Between this post and the one with the Red Matchless makes me want to build/ride some more.

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

Hi Geoff, very cool looking bike mate, I haven't ridden in years, but that just gives me the urge to get some flies in my teeth again!

Well done, how has the addition to the fleet gone down with the boss?

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Not too bad, her phone box is coming along between the weather and the Garden nearly done, plus it was items in the " toy box what paid for it, (like most here, its a build up from years of buying selling etc) to be honest if the Guy took credit card I would have an Ariel and a lovely looking Indian .......

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Originally Posted by Doco overboard

Could you describe the controls on the left handlebar? I'm guessing that they may be the clutch, or throttle lock and choke or spark advance? Is it positive ground? Sorry for the stupid questions but you don't get to see many really cool bikes like that one around my parts anymore just the usual overpriced garish user friendly wanna bee's with sawed off pipes. Between this post and the one with the Red Matchless makes me want to build/ride some more.

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The main lever is the Clutch, the one that sits on top (brass one with what looks like a nut) is the magneto advance and retard lever, the one its own which i guess was someones preference of how they wanted it is the decompression lever, on the right side (which is missing) you would have the same brass type lever which controls the air in take on the carb, bit like a choke.

Nice bike!

After cleaning the tank out and then removing the rust with a soak of vinegar a few leaks appeared, brazed them up but one part was like painting the fourth bridge....... so had to revert to a tank sealer, this has held and will do till I can find a replacement.
ordered a few basic bits which arrived and with some tinkering and a bit of jury rigging, resetting the timing, a bit of paper wedged in the throttle to keep it secure on the handle bar, a flush of oil, stop the carb from flooding etc etc....... I got a start and runs like a swiss watch, needs a bit more on the advance and plenty of other things but grin factor was ear to ear...... main concern was the oil return which it eventually started........ probably only seconds but feels like minutes......

A busy winter ahead for shore but just wanted to hear it run....... few tweaks tomorrow, need to sort carb and attach new cable to air valve.

Ordered the paint today so be with me on Monday...... synthetic matt "Service Brown" (BS 499)

I took a motorcycle training course this summer, and during the introductions we had to mention if we had a bike or what we were looking to get. One older fellow replied he had purchased a restored Harley Davidson WLA, and after trying to ride it in his residential area, (Hand shift, twist grip spark advance, and unfamiliar controls) he decided to take a riding course and learn motorcycling before wrecking the machine...

Darren, there are a few differences between a Modern Bike compared to an old one....... the advance and retard once its set there is not much to do, its getting to know the settings same as the air valve.
To me the stumbling block was the gear shift on the right and rear break on the left.... and getting used to drum brakes and cable stretch etc.

To be honest getting a start made my day, few tweaks tomorrow and I'll be in business, although will not be going far as its a British bike it comes with all the associated leaks...... just another thing I wanted to check... but a full gasket set and gearbox one required plus seals and a few bushes to make etc etc........

Obvious you can guess what I'm doing this winter.......

Dont stare to much into the oil tank to watch the return line, itll make you crazy! Way cool Bike.

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

Darren, there are a few differences between a Modern Bike compared to an old one.......
To me the stumbling block was the gear shift on the right and rear break on the left.....

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You can thank the popularity of the Japanese built motorbikes in the 1960s for standardizing gear shift left foot, brake right foot.

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Originally Posted by Paul S.

You can thank the popularity of the Japanese built motorbikes in the 1960s for standardizing gear shift left foot, brake right foot.

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Apart from a Ducati I've only ever had Japanese bikes, quite a few over the years, The Matchless was more towards the interest in the Military Vehicle side than just another bike...........also easier to park and store than a Chieftain tank or similar, then again away from the property I doubt there would be much issue with parking a tank....

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Originally Posted by Paul S.

You can thank the popularity of the Japanese built motorbikes in the 1960s for standardizing gear shift left foot, brake right foot.

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The influx of the UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) stuff like my father owned and I grew up a passenger on, had no small impact on modern motorcycling for certain.

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

Darren, there are a few differences between a Modern Bike compared to an old one....... the advance and retard once its set there is not much to do, its getting to know the settings same as the air valve.
To me the stumbling block was the gear shift on the right and rear break on the left.... and getting used to drum brakes and cable stretch etc.

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That is something I can completely appreciate, the fellow with the WLA did comment that his initial ride did not go so well and a vintage WLA is a poor choice to learn to ride for the first time. I imagine it's all a matter of getting to know the equipment, a friend of mine has a 1920's Model T Ford and he manages to drive it, despite having very different controls than any modern car.

WLA probably not the best to learn to ride on...... I learnt to ride on a Suzuki B120 which I traded an Air rifle and £5 for it.

The main problem was finding some straight SAE 40 oil for it...... although I did find some SAE 30 which I'm using at present mainly to flush it through etc. The Only SAE 40 is online or to order.
I'm reading bits and pieces regarding synthetic, as some of this will do the job just finding which one......

As for the gearbox it just got the standard gearbox oil for the time, until I strip it and rebuild it with grease (early Burman gear boxes used semi fluid grease ) plus I'll need to start using the additive for the petrol as we are unleaded now...... although I would think the valve seats are well hardened by now.

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

I'm reading bits and pieces regarding synthetic, as some of this will do the job just finding which one......

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As a guy that works with older muscle car engines as well as new stuff I can offer some information that may be helpful.

The main problem us car guys have with new (and synthetic) oils in engines has been chiefly from the reduction of Zinc as metal additive to oils. Typically, an otherwise healthy vintage engine fed a diet of new enviro friendly oil will eat the camshaft. A friend and I also work routinely on his Lada 2104 (Riva Estate) and those engines are prone to the same sort of wear. The solution has been either locating an oil with a high amount of zinc, or adding in a Zinc additive. Personally I prefer synthetic oils in my engines for a variety of reasons, but the lack of zinc rich oil in a vintage engine has been problematic.

I would think that your Matchless engine might be a similar case and call for a high zinc oil.

There is a very strong hotrod and vintage engine following in North America and obtaining a high-zinc option is usually rather easy, however I do not know what things look like in your market.

I can't say anything about oiling a matchless for certain, however I think high-Zinc oil might be a topic of interest for you.

Darren, had a bit of late night reading on the zinc etc, need to read up more though very interesting.

The reason for straight SAE 30,40,50 is it has less additives or next to none compared to multi grade which has all manner of additives such as detergents which I'm told do clean the engine but also hold the crap in suspension so not good for roller bearings I'm told...... a few oil producers for classic cars and bikes warn against using multi grade oil.

With the old bikes its really back to basics and simplicity, something which I'm keen on. The owners manual at the time recommends oil changes from new or a rebuild at 250 miles 1000 miles then every 2000 and to clean the filter (this is in the oil tank and what the return oil feeds through before running into the tank)

Its a catch 22 , as I'll be changing the oil a bit more regular than the 2000 (will be some time before I get around to clocking 2000 miles up) so carry on using a £25 gallon of straight SAE oil or go for a synthetic which will probably be double or more and how many more miles would you get before a change.

choosing an oil for a vintage engine is never an easy thing.

the way I looked at it when deciding what oil to use in my '58 beetle was I had 4 ways to decide:

use what the factory said. (or the closest modern equivalent)

find out what the previous owner used and go with that

find an engine builder that specializes in that particular engine and ask them.

do heaps and heaps of research and hope you made the right choices of reference materiel, compare it to all the options available, then decide for yourself.


the traditional thinking is changing the type of oil can have ill effects on an engine that has been run a lot using a specific oil. (I don't know enough to decide either way so took it as true), thankfully I knew the engine in my beetle had sub 4000 miles since rebuild so changing oil type wouldn't be a drama


each way to decided has it's pluses and minuses. I weighted them all up and went with the "find a engine builder..." option and as I trust his judgement, that is what I run.

The major oil companies all have technical departments that will advise engine builders. I know from my experience that CASTROL at Swindon had a large tech dept who would/could answer all the questions asked. Obviously they only suggested their own products of course but give them the info they ask and they'll give the answer. Straight from the horses mouth so to speak. Some of my uni group spent a lot of time there as part of their coursework. I was the engine builder for a Mod Sports racing team based nearby in the late 70's/early 80's and they were VERY good to us and as we were racing modified sports cars (ours was an MG Midget) which were basically just high speed road cars, they'd often insert special oils and sensor gauges in various parts of the transmission.

Had another run today just to check what was what, although burning a bit of oil at first, once the air valve was opened it soon cleared up still a few clouds but just was oil burning off the head and cylinder, was getting a bit paranoid so changed the pipe I had rigged up to the rocker feed to a clear one so could check the flow.......... obvious it was going the other way to as the return was nicely bubbling over, would of took it down the street but front brake to sort and a spacer for the rear wheel ( the speedo drive) is missing.

A day good so far and to round it off will have a seat in the garden and prep the tank for Monday (paint arrives) a few hours with the wet and dry should get me a nice finish......... just doing the tank for now to see if I'm happy with the colour, war time vehicless come in an array of colours, mid bronze green, Khaki, service brown and olive drab........

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

Darren, had a bit of late night reading on the zinc etc, need to read up more though very interesting.

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Originally Posted by henry r

choosing an oil for a vintage engine is never an easy thing.

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Agreed it's somewhere between science and a black art.

As an aside, an petro-chemical engineer friend once said of modern engines "that with a 5,000km change interval you could run it on Crisco (Vegetable Oil) if you wanted to" when I was pressing him about the advertised "advantages" one oil producer claimed over another. Of course that is an oversimplification, it was illustrative about people overthinking engine oils beyond the basics of proper grade etc.

There are many wonder oils and snake oils out there and the market is very muddy with advertising.

In the car world there are almost religious cult followings behind the stuff, it is a crazy group.

As the weather improved (for a day or two) spent a bit of time on the bike, engine was stripped...... not what I was expecting and from the cylinder head down a lot of parts to replace, expense that I hadn't catered for.... simple things such as no cups for the valve springs, spacer for the exhaust valve, it all adds up, but thats life.

Biggest hurdle was the Big end, new made ones are £200...... I was tempted to skim the old crank pin and fit a hardened shoulder to suit a new needle bearing and buy an inner race for the conrod and machine to fit..... but that was just the start, the crank pin I had was the one piece one well known for shearing due to no radius on the shoulder and was too hard, the cam shafts had seen better days too, but I could regrind them (still may) but the tappets were much the same.........

So had to bite the bullet and start sourcing the bits to renew for the bottom end and crank case, soon adds up but managed to get a bottom complete bearing and pin which are WD NOS, thanks to Ron Pier on the HMVF, who is a word of Knowledge and has contacts all over, he guided me towards a dealer and someone local I spoke to also guided me in that direction, so started with the big end today and will forward a list of bits I need, anyway on a lighter note, does anyone know how to put this lot back together...... ( don't know who had been at the flywheel previous but it was a bit errr)

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It's all looking good Geoff, the great thing is, you might have to spend some money on parts, but the majority of the expense with these things is always labour and you are doing that yourself, also you are really adding value, so if you ever sell her, you will get a really good return on your investment thanks to your hard work...

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

It's all looking good Geoff, the great thing is, you might have to spend some money on parts, but the majority of the expense with these things is always labour and you are doing that yourself, also you are really adding value, so if you ever sell her, you will get a really good return on your investment thanks to your hard work...

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Thanks John, If your ever up this way then feel free to drop in and repeat the above.... to the Boss

That AC90 stuff you are using....... It's from a place that's local to you. We were using a derivative of this stuff - I forget the name of the stuff now - from them to protect certain vehicles going to the gulf by deck cargo. Best of all the stuff tested including waxoil........ Anyway, I thought that if it's good enough to protect vehicles going by deck cargo, it's good enough for my then new old shape Mini Cooper! Absolutely flooded EVERY box section, seam and hidden nook and cranny on the whole body shell. That was 17 years ago and it's still rust free. Unlike most Rovers of the era that look like they have gone via deck cargo - on a submarine!

Its the same stuff we use at work...... similar to WD40 but cleans the hands better.........

More importantly Geoff, how was the Hobgoblin Gold, I can recommend Brakspear Gold if you can get it your way mate, it doesn't dissapoint!

Very nice....... even better when washing down the dark rum, like an angel is crying on your tongue

Hard to say about the flywheel nut at first glance it looks like something may have bounced around in there but then it makes me think of timing marks that were used with a pointer because of how they're spaced. The man who mentored me some for engine building raced English bikes and used to rebuild some for those who came looking. He would replace those bronze bearings by heating/expanding the case and then fitting them in on the Brits. I learned some static timing on BSa motors that were void of timing marks so you had to be right on twin or you bust a piston easy or melt one out with early or late spark and too lean. I don't know if that could happen on a single its been such a long time I should just be quiet. English bikes were a work of art in my mind compared to the hd which was center stand roll rear tire to gap opening tdc valves closed then bang but cool too in they're own right. I'm going to get another (English) one day after looking at all this.

Brian I would say the marks are caused by the lack of a spanner at some point, as for the timing its very basic, need to check and set points first, points should start to open when fully advanced and the piston is 3/8 " before TDC.

The technical part is using a piece of paper between the points as this should just be able to pull out if all correct..........

(on the subject of points, I could never find the correct points for my Land Rover 90, it was only when I was talking to guy in an old spare parts place, that he told me why....... it turned out that Lucas was on strike at the time or a problem with part of the production so couldn't supply Land Rover, Land Rover didn't hang around, they just used a bosch distributor instead....... )

Yep, that nut was undone and done back up with a hammer and chisel.

Used a chisel because he didn't have a thin walled BSF socket to fit. The problem with a LOT of BSF sizes is that the generally 'useable'(?) AF or metric socket sizes are a poor substitute. But good for rounding off the apex of the nut or better still, cause you to rapp your knuckles. Ouch! Having a Norton, been there and done it........

I got it, someone didn't have a wrench/socket combination to remove the nut (spanner) and then staked it. Is there a plug in the case that can be removed to insert a lock or pin into the flywheel at 3/8 BTDC after you roll it over a few times? I, started to remember the tools Mr Ronnie had they were fantastic and were-kept in a separate tool box from the others and were Whitworth which were a complete mystery to me because of the markings on the open end side.. Some were factory items and very delicate degree wheels and timing indicators that were maker specific but fork wrenches and frame gauges/bushing drivers were often made by him. I was so lucky and learned about something that was completely foreign and out of the ordinary to most in the area that I live and grew up in. These days there are so many that $15000 has made them a biker but I don't see them running that stuff off-the road and cutting through the woods or anything and then back up again down a muddy lane. That is a most rewarding project and an indication of longevity and quality that is not often appreciated these days and nearly lost because it is possible to repair your parts most of the time with some ingenuity. Plus, whatever is in those bottles and that lathe will be a big help too. I was never smart enough to figure out some of the electrical problems and had to use the wire cutters alot for lack of parts/drawings here that were out of my reach.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Used a chisel because he didn't have a thin walled BSF socket to fit. The problem with a LOT of BSF sizes is that the generally 'useable'(?) AF or metric socket sizes are a poor substitute. But good for rounding off the apex of the nut or better still, cause you to rapp your knuckles. Ouch! Having a Norton, been there and done it........

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I had a guy from the old country yelling bloody murder at me to get the Grover when I was a kid and had no idea he was using that as a euphemism for a specific tool, I really still dont know what the H#ll he was going on about.

Slowly the bits have come in and just waiting for the final bits to rebuild the engine, I was lucky to find the cams and these come from Germany one has been semi cleaned and the other awaits it, the pinion is new also as they tend to fracture as most don't realise its a left hand thread and swing on the spinner etc, thought its good insurance to change this too.....

After 61 years in its grease coating and wrapper...........

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The packing note on the bottom of the box relates to the method of packing - as in METHOD 1 - long term preservation, the packers logo - AMC Ltd and their depot code EH, date of course and that particular contract number - 6/vehicles 423. This was so that any defects could be traced back

Thanks Peter, "Method 1" has certainly paid dividends , there is something about opening a 61 year old package, I guess some are put of by looking at stuff out of the box and see the dark areas on the wrapper and thinking rust........ the actual cams are a scarce item now and I got a really good deal on these, saved around £100 by shopping around.

The supplier of some other bits I was talking to yesterday said the preservative that was used on some of the tappets he had, had the opposite effect and most of the stock was a write off...... (but I'm getting a few freebies in case they can be salvaged)

Oil return?

Whatever happened to traditional British "positive crank-case drainage"?

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Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz

Oil return?

Whatever happened to traditional British "positive crank-case drainage"?

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Still available on most models.......bit like a Land Rover if its not leaking, then its got no oil in it.

Hows the G3L coming on?

Back in the late 90's I had a 1940 WD M20 - had some great fun with that.

There were about half a dozen of us in a group with ex-WD bikes, comprising (from memory) 5 x WD M20's, 1 x G3, 1 x 16H, 1 x RE WD CO and a couple of Harley WLA's.

Slowly but surely............ all the frame has been sand blasted and primed, some other smaller bits also, Engine just requires a small bit of tig welding on the casing and can be rebuilt, I bought a job lot of parts on ebay and am using a set of Crankcases from 1942 engine.

Been a lot slower than expected and with other things getting in the way progress has been slow, but in no rush, the main problem I had was packing most of my gear away and getting my machines ready to move, I'm buying a small plot of land behind my garden to build a new workshop, It should of been finished by now and all the machines moved etc but, still don't have the plot..... so am working in a half packed workshop, a right pain when you can't find anything and you never marked what box was what.....

I have a set of BSA M20 crank cases and a frame....so maybe the next project, when looking for spares for the Matchless there was hundreds of bits for the M20, so picked them bits up for peanuts........ Although I did strike lucky with two petrol tanks for the Matchless, one for £15 and the other £30, as mine was well shot and required a sealer.